The Flow: Episode 20 - Podcast Case Study w/ Matt B. Davis
The Flow: Episode 20 - Podcast Case Study w/ Matt B. Davis : The Flow: Episode 20 - Podcast Case Study w/ Matt B. Davis
Ecamm Network
Podcasting, especially video podcasting, can be a great way to share your message with the world. There are so many things to learn and do, but it's hard to know where to start if you've never done it before.
Producing a podcast can seem daunting at first; it's easy to feel overwhelmed when you're starting something new. Using a Video First approach with Ecamm Live will make it much easier and save you lots of time.
The Flow is here to help. We'll take you step-by-step through creating a video podcast, from planning and production to promotion and monetization. You'll learn how to build an efficient workflow that will make your content shine, leaving you to focus on creating great content.
In this episode, Katie and Special Guest Matt B. Davis of Obstacle Course Media discuss how Matt started and grew the popular Obstacle Racing Media podcast.
Join us Tuesdays at 12pm Eastern on YouTube and subscribe and listen on your favorite podcast platform. Audio-only podcast episodes drop a week after the live video streams.
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Remember, Live Recordings of "The Flow" happens every Tuesday at 12PM Eastern Time on our YouTube Channel. Come to the tapings to get your questions answered live and enjoy the fun of hanging out with the "Flow Riders," our amazing community.
You can also interact with "The Flow Riders" and the host on Volley in our The Flow channel on Volley. To join in https://ecamm.tv/flowvolley
Ecamm Network
Aloha Flow Riders.
Speaker:I get to say Doc's line today because he's not here.
Speaker:This could be an awesome episode or things could go completely off the rails,
Speaker:but either way, I am so excited that you are all here hanging out with me.
Speaker:I am super excited to have a special guest on today and before I bring him
Speaker:on and we have an entire discussion all about podcasting and how to get
Speaker:started and everything that he's done to get his podcast up and running, I
Speaker:wanna tell you that it's been so fun, the fact that I get to reconnect with
Speaker:people who I've worked with in past jobs.
Speaker:So this is a great, uh, this is a great example of that,
Speaker:which makes it super fun for me.
Speaker:So I hope that you are having an absolutely incredible week wherever
Speaker:you are watching or listening from.
Speaker:And as always, if you have any questions or great ideas for an upcoming episode or
Speaker:anything that you want us to cover, you can always reach us flow at Ecamm dot com.
Speaker:You can join our Flow Volley and leave us a video message.
Speaker:We are always keeping an eye on those and if there's any video questions,
Speaker:we do our best to answer them quickly.
Speaker:We'd love to feature some questions on the show.
Speaker:So if you have a question that you want us to feature on this show,
Speaker:you should definitely, definitely send those through the Volley.
Speaker:Or, you know, we're pretty easy to contact on virtually every
Speaker:one of Ecamm's social platforms.
Speaker:So if you wanna leave us a message there, I love that the
Speaker:usual crew is here hanging out.
Speaker:As always, we'll be doing our live q and a at the end for
Speaker:all of our live flow riders.
Speaker:So certainly stick around to the end to join us, but without further adieu.
Speaker:Without too much housekeeping, I am super excited to be hanging
Speaker:out today with Matt, Matt B.
Speaker:Davis, who's in the house.
Speaker:Matt, thank you so much for hanging out on The Flow with me today.
Speaker:I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker:You said adieu, which is my second or third favorite, uh,
Speaker:Wordle word to start with.
Speaker:What do you start with?
Speaker:I actually think that is my main one.
Speaker:I'm trying to think if there's like other ones that I start with often.
Speaker:It's been a while since I've been, since I've done Wordle, although I
Speaker:kind of, I was on a kick and then I got distracted with other things.
Speaker:I've been obsessively playing Gordon Ramsey's game on my phone,
Speaker:which is like my secret shame.
Speaker:I've been, I've been fake making food in Gordon Ramsey's fake mobile kitchen
Speaker:and getting yelled at along the way.
Speaker:I like to be the, like, if everybody's doing something, go the other way.
Speaker:So I'm very new to Wordle.
Speaker:Whenever I was posting every day I was like, whatever, whatever.
Speaker:And then like six months ago, I think my daughter started a
Speaker:chain with me, her, and my wife.
Speaker:And so we started going and then they started falling off.
Speaker:And it's no fun if the people you're with aren't doing it every day.
Speaker:And then I found a couple of obstacle racing friends.
Speaker:Uh, and every morning, it's the first thing I see is they text
Speaker:me how many letters it took them.
Speaker:And so it reminds me to do it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so there we go.
Speaker:Oh, there you go.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well maybe if you add me into your, into your channel, I'll pick it back up.
Speaker:I'm like, I'm like that with tv.
Speaker:I feel like I'm always a good three years behind whatever
Speaker:everyone thinks is popular and fun.
Speaker:So you know, everyone's like, oh, you watch watching Game of Thrones?
Speaker:And I'm like, no, I haven't started that yet.
Speaker:Really?
Speaker:Haven't got into yet.
Speaker:I just watched Game of Thrones last uh, like during the pandemic, I was...
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:This way too.
Speaker:So there you go.
Speaker:Well, I want to give our backstory for everyone listening cuz I love that
Speaker:our, my two worlds are colliding here.
Speaker:So for folks who are listening and watching who know me in the world of
Speaker:Ecamm, you may not know that years back I worked for a publishing company and
Speaker:I had the pleasure of being a marketing manager for a whole slew of experts
Speaker:across a crazy amount of categories.
Speaker:So I worked on cookbooks and parenting and family books and health and fitness,
Speaker:and I got to meet Matt through that because he's a published author,
Speaker:and he has an awesome book that I own.
Speaker:And I was kicking myself for not bringing it in to be able
Speaker:to like, Hold it up to everyone.
Speaker:But yeah, that's where that, that is how we met.
Speaker:And yet you still wanna hang out with me, so I must have done
Speaker:an okay job in marketing, in helping marketing on that side.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:So Matt, why don't you give us a bit of background on who you are and how
Speaker:you initially got into podcasting?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:So we know each other because your company asked me to write a book about
Speaker:obstacle racing, which I had started doing in 2012, which is about when
Speaker:anybody listening or watching to this probably first saw on their Facebook,
Speaker:Warrior Dash, Spartan Race, Tough Mudder, 10, 11, 12 is when all that started.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And early on I decided to do a podcast about that sport.
Speaker:Not because I knew podcasting was the future, but because it just
Speaker:seemed fun and I enjoyed listening to podcasts and I hadn't heard one
Speaker:on my sport yet, and so I started it.
Speaker:And, uh, things, things really, uh, I wanna say took off, but
Speaker:escalated from
Speaker:I mean, I'm sure we're gonna get to a lot of it, but we're
Speaker:talking about a 10 year journey.
Speaker:I hit the 10 year mark this past June.
Speaker:Congratulations
Speaker:podcast.
Speaker:And that feels very, like big to me.
Speaker:So a year into it, you know, you asked me to write a book, a year or so into it.
Speaker:There was a documentary being made.
Speaker:I got asked to be in that, and I just kind of quickly became the industry expert,
Speaker:as it were, which it, it turns out, it's what everyone who wants to launch
Speaker:podcasts and YouTube channels tells you that you should probably do is focus
Speaker:on one thing and be the expert on that.
Speaker:And again, it's not cuz I was a genius, it's because it just seems fun to me.
Speaker:But then once I've realized it was my job, I've taken it very
Speaker:seriously and have wanted to put out a lot of good content and loved
Speaker:and loved putting content, content.
Speaker:I do way more video and Instagram and all the stuff.
Speaker:I didn't do that stuff at all in 2012, but the podcast is
Speaker:still like my baby, my favorite.
Speaker:I've started other podcasts since, so that's kind of
Speaker:how I feel about podcasting.
Speaker:That is incredible and congratulations on 10 years.
Speaker:That is just huge.
Speaker:That's, and you're on our 20th episode so you can give us all, all of the advice
Speaker:and hopefully we can get to being as far down the road as you've had your success.
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:So when you started that long ago, What did podcasting look like then versus now?
Speaker:So how, what, what has changed in that specific podcast over the last 10 years?
Speaker:Well, I can tell you that in the early years, people literally didn't
Speaker:know what it was, what a podcast was.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker:So if I met you on an airplane, I would have to explain to you what obstacle
Speaker:racing was and what a podcast was.
Speaker:So it would be like, you know, have you heard like This American
Speaker:Life, but like not in your car.
Speaker:Like you heard,
Speaker:it's like a radio station, but like not a radio station
Speaker:and Yeah, it's on your phone.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:I mean, that's seriously what it was like.
Speaker:And there was one player and it was iTunes, so it wasn't,
Speaker:you know, it was, it was.
Speaker:It, it was just, and then when the kind of, the boom boom happened after
Speaker:Serial, which was, I wanna say 17.
Speaker:Whatever, whenever that happened.
Speaker:Even, even then, it's nothing to what it is now.
Speaker:Like, I don't know what the numbers are, but has it been another 10 x since 2017?
Speaker:So
Speaker:I, it's just been growing crazy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it's just, it's kind of like you just see more and more people doing it.
Speaker:Everybody's sort of trying their hand at it and other apps wanting
Speaker:to serve it in a different way.
Speaker:And there's just this really special connection people have
Speaker:when you're in their ears.
Speaker:And so that's what podcasting is and does for people.
Speaker:Yeah, no, it's, it's absolutely true and they, it must have been such a weird
Speaker:experience to try to have to defend or explain both, both sides of that.
Speaker:And I'm sure too as like as obstacle racing started taking off and then
Speaker:podcasting started taking off, you probably had these bursts of, you know,
Speaker:of people jumping on and listening.
Speaker:Was it, did that make it harder or easier as you kind of had these like,
Speaker:you know, bursts of audience coming, coming in or wanting to learn more?
Speaker:Well, you know, going to these events, right?
Speaker:These obstacle races, let's say I, you know, I went to, let's say
Speaker:20 races a year I went to, right?
Speaker:Which is Oh wow.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, some local, some travel and, you know, people would continue to come up to
Speaker:me and say, Hey, I listened to the show.
Speaker:And some people would wanna have a long conversation about it.
Speaker:Some people were just like, Hey, thanks, good job.
Speaker:And I think at one point I thought well, the numbers are kind of stagnant.
Speaker:Like the downloads.
Speaker:So I've probably.
Speaker:I've reached a peak and I've met all people gonna meet.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:But it, it doesn't, it doesn't fail that every time I go to a race, somebody comes
Speaker:up to me and it's, it's, it's nice because when you're, you know, when you do this
Speaker:for a living, you know, you get feedback, but it's not, you know, it's not constant.
Speaker:So when people stop to say, I really enjoyed this, or I really enjoyed
Speaker:what you're doing, or, I appreciate that you cover the sport for us
Speaker:or whatever, it feels really nice.
Speaker:So, people always seem they're shy about doing it or they think that you might hear
Speaker:it too much, but I can tell you, never be afraid to go up to your favorite content
Speaker:creator and say, I love what you're doing because we all need to hear it.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:It's interesting.
Speaker:I, we've been having all these conversations, predominantly with those
Speaker:who are, you know, either thinking about getting into the podcasting space
Speaker:or, you know, or have just started it.
Speaker:And one of the questions that comes up for us a lot is this, this idea of
Speaker:like, oh, you know, medium too niche.
Speaker:Like, will anyone listen?
Speaker:Like, just because I have this idea, like is it worth going out there and doing it?
Speaker:And it.
Speaker:You know, there's a couple different ways I suppose you could answer it,
Speaker:but I love that we have you on because you have this very specific niche
Speaker:and then you are like, so new to podcasting that you just went for it.
Speaker:So was there, was there a point where it was like a little scary?
Speaker:You were trying to think through like, you know, is there
Speaker:gonna be an audience for this?
Speaker:How, you know, how did you kind of go about thinking through your audience and,
Speaker:and growing, you know, that listener base?
Speaker:I think now I certainly put way more thought into it, you know, when it
Speaker:comes to posting things on Instagram or YouTube titles and thumbnails, and,
Speaker:you know, I, I don't know how much you guys have talked about this, but
Speaker:podcasting is still lousy for search.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so I don't spend a lot of time there like with.
Speaker:You know, it's just, I just put the show out and I think that's what
Speaker:I try to tell, like, so people ask me a lot, people ask me for advice
Speaker:a lot and I'm happy to give it.
Speaker:And especially in my field, there have been people who've started
Speaker:shows and you know, I I, I tell them like, don't look at the statistics.
Speaker:Just keep cranking them out cuz it's not gonna, no, no one
Speaker:guest is gonna move the needle.
Speaker:An episode you think is gonna do great, won't.
Speaker:One you don't think matters will matter to people.
Speaker:So it's fortunately, unfortunately, always the same advice, which is be consistent.
Speaker:And as long as you love what you're doing, keep doing it.
Speaker:Because the audience can tell when you're faking it.
Speaker:Yeah, it's abs.
Speaker:Absolutely true.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The, that is, I'm glad to hear you say that.
Speaker:That's the advice that we've been giving out is just that, you know, it really
Speaker:comes down to why you're doing it and you shouldn't be doing it for any other
Speaker:reason other than you have something that you want to be able to put out and
Speaker:something you know that you think is of value there, you're passionate about it.
Speaker:You wanna do it because if you're doing it just for, you know, fans or because
Speaker:you think you're gonna make an absolute killing at it, it's probably not a
Speaker:good reason to jump into the world of podcasting because it does, you're right,
Speaker:it takes a ton of time and a ton of work and you know, and there are ebbs and flows
Speaker:to it, I'm sure over even over 10 years.
Speaker:Walk us through a little bit about the, so I'm assuming that most folks
Speaker:listening here probably don't know, you know, you or haven't heard your podcast.
Speaker:So what is the, what is the format of it?
Speaker:Are you audio only?
Speaker:Are you doing audio and video?
Speaker:You know, what is, what does the show look and sound like?
Speaker:So when I started the show, It was actually, I said there was only iTunes.
Speaker:There was this thing, which actually still exists, called Stitcher, and
Speaker:it was actually a call in format.
Speaker:You would call in to line.
Speaker:So if you listen to these old episodes, it's great.
Speaker:It's got that old like phone sound.
Speaker:I love listening to the like, OG episode.
Speaker:You feel like you're sort of behind the scenes.
Speaker:You're like, ah, this is.
Speaker:And it was, it was, let's talk about people who do these races, right?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Like, here's this mom, here's this veteran, here's the
Speaker:guy that puts on this race.
Speaker:And then because I'm genuinely curious and kind of can't, you know, keep my
Speaker:mouth shut, I was just like, I wanna say one of the first, but I was early
Speaker:on the only person saying like, well, hey, you guys actually screwed this up.
Speaker:What happened here?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so people were thrilled that somebody was like, Hey, here's
Speaker:somebody holding people accountable.
Speaker:Again, so I did not decide to be a quote unquote media company or a journalist.
Speaker:I mean, I taught myself all this stuff, right?
Speaker:And this is what I tell people all the time.
Speaker:It's like, I didn't know I could write a book until I did it.
Speaker:When you guys, I say you guys, the publishing company said
Speaker:me specifically.
Speaker:When I specifically...
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:When you guys reached out and said, we specialize in this thing,
Speaker:would you like to do this thing?
Speaker:You know, of course I was terrified and of course I missed all my deadlines because
Speaker:I was afraid of, you know, doing it.
Speaker:And, you know, and then once I finished it, it was like, Oh, I'm
Speaker:actually like a pretty good writer.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like seriously, I've gone back to, to read many a blog and I
Speaker:literally go, did I write that?
Speaker:Like, I like, wow.
Speaker:Like I didn't know I could do that.
Speaker:And that's with zero journalism background, zero.
Speaker:You know, like I got Ds in English, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Like I didn't really apply myself.
Speaker:I'm not a college graduate, all those things.
Speaker:And I know right now it's like very cool and niche to say that you didn't
Speaker:go to college and do anything but I've just always been that way.
Speaker:I just could never, like, school seemed boring to me and I didn't know what
Speaker:I wanted to do or be, and so it just seemed like not a good fit for me.
Speaker:And if it's a fit for you, great.
Speaker:But in terms of the content itself really was, let's do the podcast.
Speaker:I think I can get money for advertising if I keep doing it.
Speaker:And then like, okay, now let's write a blog and let's see how we, and
Speaker:so then it was like, okay, now I'm doing this whole thing and I'm the
Speaker:obstacle guy and I sold advertising, you know, to anybody listening.
Speaker:It's like what should I charge?
Speaker:It's like whatever they'll give you, you know what I mean?
Speaker:It was like, Hey, two 50 a month.
Speaker:And they were like, okay.
Speaker:And so then like a couple months later, the next time somebody asked, I was like,
Speaker:well, I'll try to ask for $500 a month.
Speaker:Like really?
Speaker:Like, cuz I didn't have any, you know, I didn't have any like big analytics,
Speaker:so it was just like, Hey, I can send you my numbers, they're not that big, but I
Speaker:can tell you the people that listen are very loyal, which is still what I say.
Speaker:You know, we've got a very loyal audience, a very dedicated audience,
Speaker:and, if you wanna reach people who spend their time running the mud,
Speaker:we're the place to do that, right?
Speaker:Now as, I've still like a one person company, right?
Speaker:I have video editor that I use once in a while and I have people that
Speaker:help me do social sometimes that I pay in barter, I pay in like free races
Speaker:or free gear cuz I've just, I have a family of five, so if I had less
Speaker:children, I could have more employees.
Speaker:That's
Speaker:Soon the children can be the employees.
Speaker:So it'll all work itself out.
Speaker:I really wish that would workout better.
Speaker:They don't work as cheap as they used to, right?
Speaker:Anymore.
Speaker:Like they used to just do whatever your parents said.
Speaker:But now it's a whole different conversation.
Speaker:So yesterday's a great example.
Speaker:Real time, real stuff.
Speaker:I had an interview with a guy and a hot topic came up about,
Speaker:it's a movement question.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:There's this specific movement in this thing called High Rocks, just
Speaker:sort of a offshoot of obstacle racing.
Speaker:It's more, it's kind of cross fitty, just to dumb it down.
Speaker:And like in the video it's like, look, they're doing it wrong,
Speaker:and the judge should have scored it this way instead of this way.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So that's already gonna be in the podcast, but I'm also like, ding, like hot topic.
Speaker:Let's get that on an IG Reel as quickly as we can.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And so because I've learned and because Instagram has proven to me that a Reel
Speaker:does better than a picture, so I wish it weren't the case, but it's the case.
Speaker:So I record every podcast, audio and video, and so I snagged
Speaker:the video from that one part.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:And then, Somebody sent me something else and I was like, okay, well
Speaker:now I have a comparison, so I'll make that a YouTube video.
Speaker:And I have to say, it's rare that that happens in one day.
Speaker:I'm usually slower or doing other things, but, so yesterday I got a
Speaker:podcast and a Reel and a video, and to some people that might be nothing.
Speaker:Some people are like...
Speaker:I put up seven Reels in a day or whatever.
Speaker:But for me, that was great.
Speaker:And all the things you'll hear that you've probably said and that other
Speaker:people will hear, it's just, it's mostly the same stuff, which is,
Speaker:there's a, there's a machine to feed called the content machine.
Speaker:And as long as it's, you know, the phrase I've always used
Speaker:is consistent quality content.
Speaker:And that's what it takes.
Speaker:And again, in 20, let's say 14 people were like, well, maybe you should just
Speaker:put the whole thing on YouTube even with a thumbnail because some people
Speaker:will search and find you that way.
Speaker:Like that was a thought, right?
Speaker:And only in recent years, I dunno when it started that it was like six minute
Speaker:clip, 10 minute clip, eight minute clip of here's this interview with this celebrity.
Speaker:And then it's, you know, George Clooney thoughts on Ocean's 11,
Speaker:George Clooney thoughts on Oceans 12, George Clooney full interview.
Speaker:Like all that stuff.
Speaker:And again, I don't have the machine to build that, but I do some of that.
Speaker:Again, it's really what does your time and and effort and system allow you to do?
Speaker:Well, it also sounds like you set yourself up for success, which is one of those
Speaker:things we've been talking about a lot when it comes to thinking through video
Speaker:versus audio in the podcasting space, is that if you are, if you're capturing
Speaker:video, even if you're not a video podcast, that gives you that opportunity that
Speaker:if something interesting happens, like when you say something brilliant during
Speaker:today's podcast, we can clip that out as a video and be able to share that,
Speaker:you know, as an Instagram Reel or as a YouTube short, or, you know, post
Speaker:it in a number of different places.
Speaker:And that could lead back to someone listening to the full episode or
Speaker:discovering the podcast or, you know, learning more about what it is that we do.
Speaker:So, I think approaching, approaching podcasting as a marketing vehicle and
Speaker:also approaching it, thinking through what is the, the one thing that I can
Speaker:do that gives me the most opportunity if those great moments come up.
Speaker:So if you start with video and you're able to really use that
Speaker:in different ways, that's great.
Speaker:Like even if you're not using it as a regular video podcast, just being
Speaker:able to think through that and go back later to be able to pull it out, right?
Speaker:Like is how...
Speaker:saves yourself time.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So there's a great app called Headliner, which does it for free.
Speaker:There's probably 50 other apps that exist, but even if you don't have that,
Speaker:if you can just screen record, I highly recommend buying a screen recording thing.
Speaker:Like, I forget what it costs, but I use Movavi and I screen recorded that video.
Speaker:And you can screen and you can do it the size of Instagram.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Which I like, for Reels.
Speaker:And by the way, I hate it.
Speaker:I like a nice horizontal shot, especially watching a sporting event, right?
Speaker:Like I'm watching, maybe I've been speak, you know, I dunno if that
Speaker:makes me a boomer, but I hate, hate, hate that I can't go live like this.
Speaker:I hate it on Instagram, but if you put it will tell you, it'll,
Speaker:it'll tell the algorithm not to send it to as many people.
Speaker:So anyway, whatever you, whatever you just said, we could steal that, throw
Speaker:it up on Instagram and even if you don't use a Headliner, you just hit captions.
Speaker:And then, and again, like free tip for people.
Speaker:I don't know what you guys have covered or not, but if you add a song, even if
Speaker:you turn the song all the way down, the algorithm recognizes you're using it.
Speaker:They like that.
Speaker:You use it, boom.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Yeah, no, it is, it is amazing.
Speaker:All the little tricks out there that play into the various algorithms and you know,
Speaker:it does, it does make a big difference.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Every time you're like, oh, we, we've had this debate back and forth on like, On
Speaker:the music side where you're like, ah, you know, you wanna find like the right music
Speaker:for it, but sometimes the right music is the one that'll get your video shown.
Speaker:So maybe you don't like whatever the top song is, but if it works, it works, right?
Speaker:Well, something else that literally just happened today.
Speaker:You're just so fortunate that this happened, you know, this whole idea of
Speaker:how can I make, you know, a thumbnail great without being too clickbait.
Speaker:And, you know, title and thumbnails are everything.
Speaker:Title and thumbnails are everything.
Speaker:Well, I just watched a video today and they're like, guess what?
Speaker:They're starting to do the thing that Netflix does, which is as soon as your
Speaker:phone sees it, it's gonna start playing.
Speaker:So you may not even see the thumbnail and your intro is now the new thumbnail.
Speaker:So thank God we've all spent a million hours on thumbnails.
Speaker:So it's like, again, that may not even be true, right?
Speaker:I mean, they are, they are changing.
Speaker:I forget what they call it.
Speaker:You probably know cuz you're in the business, but they call it live
Speaker:in feed or whatever they call it.
Speaker:They're, yeah, they've been updating, they've been doing a lot of updates.
Speaker:I mean, that is the one thing that is, you know, is always going to stay constant,
Speaker:constant, is that nothing is constant.
Speaker:Everything is gonna change on all those platforms.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They're, they're always trying to find like a better way to surface content,
Speaker:a better way to, you know, to catch the views, to keep people on their platforms,
Speaker:whatever the platform is, right?
Speaker:Whether that's Facebook or Instagram, YouTube, all of them.
Speaker:They all, they're all fighting for eyes and fighting for people
Speaker:to stay on their platform.
Speaker:So it's kind of freeing though in some ways because it means for all of us who
Speaker:are out there in the content creation space that, you know, the like mistake
Speaker:quote unquote that you made, you know, last week that you've been beating
Speaker:yourself up about, doesn't matter anymore cuz it's all changed anyway.
Speaker:So it's a safe space to be testing and trying different things and you
Speaker:know, constantly playing around with it and going back and making changes.
Speaker:Like YouTube in particular is a great place where if you have those videos up
Speaker:there, there's nothing stopping you from going back and changing those thumbnails
Speaker:to something, trying something different.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Changing those descriptions, you know, going back and trimming that
Speaker:video down or making any of those edits is absolutely possible.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, yeah, someone was saying that you still need 'em for desktop and
Speaker:yeah, I still, I still, like if you would've told me that YouTube would
Speaker:be a channel like Hulu or Netflix, like I would've never thought that.
Speaker:And that's literally the first thing I look at when I get home.
Speaker:I get home, I watch a ton of five to eight, eight minute clips,
Speaker:entertainment, news, whatever.
Speaker:And again, right now those are thumbnails, but it might get to the
Speaker:point where they're all like that movie version, whatever that so, so who knows?
Speaker:But yeah, it's always changing and I've spent a lot of time on things,
Speaker:certain things that I thought would do well, like some longer form stuff.
Speaker:And it can be devastating, right?
Speaker:But then it just gets back to like, okay, it didn't get seen by as many
Speaker:as I thought, but like I'm proud of it, I like it, and that's okay.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:There's a question that came in, that I normally try to ignore the comments
Speaker:sections for those who are not here live with us, but Paul has a great question,
Speaker:so I'm gonna ask it and everyone listening can still hear it, so it'll be okay.
Speaker:If you were starting over again today, what would you do differently?
Speaker:A couple things.
Speaker:One, I'm, I don't wanna say bad at the making money part because like
Speaker:clearly I make my living doing this, but I think there are ways, I think
Speaker:I suffered from what a lot of people suffer from, which is asking for money
Speaker:and b not seeming too salesy, right?
Speaker:Like, I wanna just give you this free content, but there are ways to monetize
Speaker:that I did not do as well as I thought.
Speaker:So if I started over tomorrow, if I could go back to 2012,
Speaker:I would a hundred percent.
Speaker:If I'm the expert on the sport and the news and all that stuff,
Speaker:like I would sell more stuff.
Speaker:And so people make money with affiliate sales, right?
Speaker:And I made a little money with affiliate sales, but I certainly
Speaker:would've put a lot more time into that.
Speaker:And then like, cuz it would make, it would obviously make sense if I'm
Speaker:the guy for news and information.
Speaker:Oh, what shoes do I wear?
Speaker:Like, but it didn't, it, it didn't occur to me until much later that
Speaker:like, that's the most valuable.
Speaker:That's the most valuable asset, like valuable in terms
Speaker:of like dollars and cents.
Speaker:I guess that feeds into this other sort of theory that I've always had.
Speaker:And let's put it this way, like if you wanna serve, if you're, if you have
Speaker:your niche audience and you're serving two masters, Katie, one is the people
Speaker:that care about the sport a lot and they're not gonna get it anywhere else.
Speaker:I talk to this athlete, I know the ins and outs of this.
Speaker:It's a really small number, right?
Speaker:And those people love what I do.
Speaker:Always love what I do and make me X amount of dollars in these various ways.
Speaker:But then you can feed the Google machine and do big broad subjects like,
Speaker:how do I train for a Spartan race?
Speaker:It's like, that's the stuff I never focused on and I still don't because
Speaker:I'm like too busy doing the newsy stuff.
Speaker:And so how do I train for Spartan races search much more than
Speaker:who won the last Spartan race.
Speaker:So if I had to do it over again, I would've focused a lot more on gear and
Speaker:nutrition and the wider stuff because now I feel like even now I struggle with
Speaker:that and I certainly would've put more time and effort into YouTube sooner.
Speaker:I didn't even learn how to edit a video until 2017 because I was
Speaker:like, I can't possibly do that.
Speaker:I taught myself to edit podcasts, right?
Speaker:How can I...
Speaker:video is impossible.
Speaker:I will never be able to do it.
Speaker:How can I do it?
Speaker:I have to get somebody to do it.
Speaker:And then I couldn't afford to hire somebody, and it turns out I had to
Speaker:give myself, I had to take the advice, Katie, that I was giving everybody
Speaker:else about podcasting, which is when you start, you're going to suck at it.
Speaker:when you start, it's gonna take you eight hours to do something that
Speaker:will eventually take you one hour.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:All those things that I told people about podcasting and it's
Speaker:like, Matt, you have to do this.
Speaker:And certain, sure enough, I started on I on iMovie and it
Speaker:took me hours and hours and hours.
Speaker:And then I eventually jumped over to Final Cut, like a year ago.
Speaker:And, uh, Hey.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yesterday I put out, you know, a video that normally
Speaker:would've taken me three days.
Speaker:So those are the two things.
Speaker:Find out how to monetize sooner and do more video.
Speaker:That's good to hear.
Speaker:Cause I feel like those are the things that everyone struggles with.
Speaker:Like it, you're, You were a hundred percent not alone.
Speaker:And if you're listening to this, I'm glad that Matt said that, cause I'm
Speaker:sure that that's on your mind as well.
Speaker:Cuz I, you know, those are the questions that come up all the time
Speaker:are like, okay, you know, I really wanna do this, but I also would like
Speaker:to, you know, build an audience and make money at it some way or another.
Speaker:Whether it's a hobby that you're starting it as, or you're doing it as a business.
Speaker:And those kinds of conversations are the hardest because in particular,
Speaker:podcast numbers are, like you said, they're lower than you would think.
Speaker:Like I feel like when you start podcasting, you always, you're like,
Speaker:ah, like, you know what, like what's a good, what's a good podcast listenership?
Speaker:And it's always just, you know, in your mind you're like millions of podcast
Speaker:listeners or like thousands of, you know, and that's, you know, like a good podcast.
Speaker:Much less than what you would think, you know?
Speaker:And especially now, cuz there are so many celebrities out there who have
Speaker:these celebrity podcasts, right?
Speaker:So it kind of skews those numbers where you look at someone like
Speaker:Dax Shepherd who has this, you know, wildly popular podcast.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Because he was already famous when he started doing that podcast.
Speaker:So he's bringing an existing audience with him into those numbers.
Speaker:So it makes I think, the playing field a little bit harder to try to logically
Speaker:think through what to charge for things or how to, you know, best monetize
Speaker:your podcast cuz the analytics are tricky and there's not a ton of really
Speaker:helpful information out there on that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I may or may not have a big resentment against celebrities that show up
Speaker:day one in the new and interesting or featured, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But again, it's like, that's why you can't even worry about
Speaker:that stuff and just crank out.
Speaker:And I think again, like that money is a double-edged sword cuz that's
Speaker:when people go into it thinking like, oh, well I wanna make money.
Speaker:But it's like, I'm not, I'm not telling you it's gonna take you two
Speaker:or five or 10 years to make money.
Speaker:I'm just telling you that you've gotta do it cuz you really love doing it.
Speaker:Because most podcasts, as you've probably learned last, somewhere
Speaker:between like three and 18 months.
Speaker:This, like this takes a lot of work.
Speaker:Or I always see people start a show with like seven people and
Speaker:I'm like, you are never gonna get together with these people.
Speaker:Then you cannot possibly schedule, like, have a co-host tops and getting
Speaker:two people on the same schedule where somebody's kid doesn't get sick or
Speaker:you know, their car dies or whatever.
Speaker:So I'm a big proponent of doing it yourself or with one other person.
Speaker:I think multiple host shows are a recipe for it going south.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, unless you have a really dedicated crew or you're cool with the
Speaker:idea of like, there are seven of us and we're gonna switch on and off, like,
Speaker:it's gonna be like two of us at any given time, maybe three of us at any given time.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I agree.
Speaker:We've been joking lately on this show that I'm so thankful
Speaker:that Doc is doing this with me.
Speaker:One, because he knows this space way better than me, so I'm the one that
Speaker:gets to ask all the dumb questions.
Speaker:Awesome for me and two, it's great because we are on completely different schedules.
Speaker:We're on completely different time zones.
Speaker:You know, I have kids, he doesn't, so it makes it much easier when one of us needs
Speaker:to drop the ball, the show goes on, right?
Speaker:If it was just me, last week would've been dicey for me, cuz my whole house was sick.
Speaker:And like everything, every conceivable bad thing that could have happened
Speaker:was like back to back to back.
Speaker:So I would've been like, Nope, I can't do this this week.
Speaker:So, yeah, I agree.
Speaker:We've been talking a lot about this concept of thinking about your
Speaker:podcast, not as the vehicle with which you're going to make money.
Speaker:Your podcast is the vehicle with which you're going to build your community.
Speaker:And, you know, and the other things are what you're gonna make money on.
Speaker:Like you were saying, like, you know, maybe it's the affiliate
Speaker:sales, maybe it's that you have, you know, a paid membership.
Speaker:Maybe it's that you have a product line or a service line that you're selling.
Speaker:You know, it's probably not the actual podcast ad revenue or sponsorship
Speaker:that's gonna make you a killing, cuz those are very difficult to come by.
Speaker:It's all the things that you'll build around it is
Speaker:where the money is going to be.
Speaker:Typically, yes.
Speaker:Oh my gosh.
Speaker:I'm, uh, yeah, it's what monetization is one of those spaces where it's
Speaker:always, always a little bit dicey.
Speaker:I wanna talk a little bit about gear and kind of how you approach things cuz you're
Speaker:in an interesting place, which we've covered a little bit on this show cause
Speaker:we've done a bit of travel this year, but you're often not in the same space, right?
Speaker:So you're doing, you're doing a podcast usually on location or on
Speaker:the go in somewhere or another.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Cuz you're interviewing people, you're at obstacle races, you're,
Speaker:you're in different places.
Speaker:How have you and how do you approach thinking through quality and consistency
Speaker:when you're always in a different environment, usually where there's
Speaker:a lot of things you can't control.
Speaker:Being outside is dicey for lighting and sound and some of those challenges.
Speaker:Right, so I think that what's great is that the tools get better.
Speaker:And so at a certain like level you can, you can start.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So I started literally doing this, right?
Speaker:Just like headphones or no headphones on a computer.
Speaker:And this was back like, you know, Zoom wasn't a thing.
Speaker:It was like, it was like, do you have a Skype?
Speaker:Do you know what your sign-in is?
Speaker:Or can you just call me?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And then on site, I literally used this little tape recorder
Speaker:that was like, I wanna say the size of your phone, let's say.
Speaker:And I just held it like near their mouth and I would talk.
Speaker:And if it's a race, you wanna move away from the speaker, right?
Speaker:If there's like a lot of like loud bass, let's go behind the food trucks.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Music and people and yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's a little bit quieter.
Speaker:It also, at those events, people like it cuz it actually kind of
Speaker:gave you the feel of being there.
Speaker:Like, cuz there is a little bit of background noise as long as you
Speaker:weren't next to the actual speaker.
Speaker:And then, uh, I always say just absolutely start where you are.
Speaker:You definitely do not have to go out and buy the latest and greatest,
Speaker:but then when you can, upgrade.
Speaker:So I eventually bought, I always call it the wrong thing.
Speaker:It's either H four N or h n four and just two microphones.
Speaker:And that's what I use.
Speaker:Like two Shure microphones, which are, I think they're like $40 each.
Speaker:And then two cables which come with it actually.
Speaker:And a little eight megabyte disc and off you go.
Speaker:And that stuff works amazing.
Speaker:The mic's even in a room with bad sound or outside, they sound
Speaker:great cuz they're directional.
Speaker:So whoever's talking into it, you just gotta make sure they're not
Speaker:playing with the cord too much.
Speaker:When I do these, I usually actually have that Shure microphone set up in a
Speaker:little stand, but, I moved outside last minute, so here we are on the phone.
Speaker:See, we're on location and we're making it work.
Speaker:Yeah, actually I'm very impressed.
Speaker:It's probably quieter in your space than it is in mine.
Speaker:I'm in an office right downtown and there's always, we have like, this is an
Speaker:old Milltown, so there's always like the, that's like lunchtime and then there's
Speaker:the other one that's like end of lunch and fire trucks that go by all the time.
Speaker:For some reason, I feel like the whole town is constantly burning
Speaker:down or calling the fire station.
Speaker:So, yeah, so this, this works.
Speaker:I'm a big fan.
Speaker:I don't like cordless.
Speaker:I'm a big fan of just the old basic, you know, Whatever you call this,
Speaker:the, the old iPhone direct link.
Speaker:But yeah, I, well, I don't know what the newer version is of it.
Speaker:I mean, I think there's bigger versions where you can have six people
Speaker:talking at once or, or whatever.
Speaker:And even if you brought one microphone and handed it back and
Speaker:forth, you could do it that way.
Speaker:If, let's say you couldn't afford to buy two microphones, if you could
Speaker:just afford the one, like, you know, and I, and the same thing with video.
Speaker:You know, I started with just my phone and then when I started, you know, like, okay,
Speaker:let me try to dedicate some money to this.
Speaker:I asked my friends who make videos like, what should I get?
Speaker:And your phone is amazing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We forget.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's amazing how good, you, if you do a nice, like horizontal shot and you
Speaker:matched it with somebody who shot it on a, you know, not the really expensive
Speaker:cameras, but a basic dslr, it's, you honestly can't tell much difference.
Speaker:Yeah, I've definitely had a few instances where, so I'm in a studio space where
Speaker:it's a shared space and my bosses who are incredible are constantly
Speaker:testing because we make video software.
Speaker:So I inevitably will walk in and cameras are missing or cables are like in the
Speaker:wrong place or things are not connected.
Speaker:And so I've had a couple of instances where I'm like, oh, shoot, like I
Speaker:have a live or recording a video in a couple minutes, and I need
Speaker:to, I need to solve this situation.
Speaker:My phone now connects either with a wire through Camo or in many cases now
Speaker:even wirelessly through continuous cam.
Speaker:So it's amazing.
Speaker:And the quality Yeah, like you said, really isn't that different?
Speaker:It's leagues better than what's built into your laptop or into
Speaker:your, like a basic level webcam.
Speaker:So yeah, it's worth having and it's worth having like an ex, you know, if
Speaker:you have like an older, one generation older phone that you know you're not
Speaker:really using as much anymore, it's great to set it up as an extra camera as well,
Speaker:especially if you're doing anything where you need like an overhead shot
Speaker:or like a second shot that comes in.
Speaker:It goes a really long way.
Speaker:And if you want, when this is all over, I can send you a link that I made,
Speaker:that I made years ago and I haven't changed it much, which is people are
Speaker:always asking me, what do you use?
Speaker:And I included in there and it's pretty, it's pretty basic.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Throw those affiliate links, it'll be a win-win for everyone.
Speaker:I do have an affiliate link, Amazon page for that stuff.
Speaker:I don't make a ton of money on it, but again, I'm just happy to tell folks.
Speaker:I mean, and again, like once you learn the basics, like, um, you know, move away from
Speaker:the noise and make sure like the sun is, you know, facing you and not behind you.
Speaker:Once you learn that basic stuff, you can do some kind of amazing things.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:You can make it look pretty good.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:It's so funny.
Speaker:We're in this space where, you know, with Ecamm customers or potential
Speaker:customers, they always have all of these questions about gear, because for the
Speaker:most part, a lot of the influencers we work with and content creators
Speaker:have these like incredible studio spaces because they are, you know,
Speaker:YouTubers or that's their full-time job.
Speaker:And so as new people coming in, it's often like, oh, you know, I can't.
Speaker:I can't start, you know, recording a podcast or doing live video until I
Speaker:have, you know, the like giant lights and multiple mirrorless cameras and like
Speaker:the most expensive mic and the Rodecaster Pro and like all, all of these things.
Speaker:And I think you're a great example of you can actually, you can, you can do
Speaker:a lot with a really, you know, somewhat basic system and still be able to do,
Speaker:you know, years of an incredible podcast that's popular and that has a fan base.
Speaker:So yeah, I think it's important advice for us all to hear.
Speaker:We interview a ton of people and everyone has a different favorite microphone
Speaker:or a different favorite camera, and everyone's setup's different, and yet
Speaker:they're also creating content and they're all still winning at what they do.
Speaker:So it's a good reminder for all of us that just because someone loves a
Speaker:particular item doesn't mean that it will work exactly the way that you want it
Speaker:to, or that it's the best fit for you.
Speaker:Like it might not be.
Speaker:You might like something that's way cheaper or way more expensive,
Speaker:like you really need to kind of ask around and test and play.
Speaker:think through what actually you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:If I ran out of battery or disk space and didn't prepare, which has
Speaker:happened, like voice memo is great.
Speaker:I think, again, voice memo with your phone, you definitely need to be
Speaker:somewhere quieter, like the outside noise.
Speaker:It can't really distinguish the difference, so I wouldn't suggest
Speaker:using that in a crowded place.
Speaker:But if you are just, if you are outside, like where I'm at now, or even in
Speaker:a room, there's not that much echo.
Speaker:If like, you put a phone right here and you and I talk it, it sounds pretty great.
Speaker:Yeah, it's absolutely incredible.
Speaker:Paul is coming in with all these amazing questions, so I'm
Speaker:just gonna keep asking them.
Speaker:Paul asks, other than video editing skills, what other skills would
Speaker:you advise a newbie to level up?
Speaker:Again, I think there's a couple of basic things that make all the difference.
Speaker:Because again, the technology's so good.
Speaker:It's like, I'm, again, I'm breaking my own rule here.
Speaker:Like I always, like, I always set this up like on box right or something, cuz
Speaker:no one wants to look up your nose, right?
Speaker:And I see that all the time, even on, even on newscast.
Speaker:And I'm like, why is this person look like this?
Speaker:And I'm on CBS News and I have to look straight up their fucking nose.
Speaker:Pardon my French.
Speaker:So it's like just, just there really isn't much.
Speaker:Like again, This is the first time I've ever had a recent
Speaker:Mac, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Like this one now is, if I put about this Mac, is it gonna tell me what year it is?
Speaker:This says 2021, and I bought it in 2021.
Speaker:Before that, I would always buy a $500 Mac that was probably three to four years old
Speaker:and it lasted easily three to four years.
Speaker:And then you could still sell it for like, like half of it, because Macs are great.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Personal preference, whatever you wanna get, get.
Speaker:Uh, so yeah.
Speaker:So in terms of terms of like, yeah, in terms of leave up, honestly, like work
Speaker:with absolutely what you have, because whatever you have is gonna be fine.
Speaker:Until you can do better.
Speaker:And again, like I still do not have a lot of things.
Speaker:Like, even like I've, I've done times where I've used a ring light, but
Speaker:I have more often than I haven't.
Speaker:If you're in a well- lighted room, it looks fine.
Speaker:If you're outside, it looks fine.
Speaker:Once in a while, it's like if you have those, uh, those crappy, um, like.
Speaker:I think like you're in your school, old school.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Like the fluorescent tube lights?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Like those.
Speaker:And it just, it makes your face look weird.
Speaker:So yeah, buy a cheap light on Amazon.
Speaker:But again, like all the tools are, so I'm sure you guys talk about
Speaker:this all the time, all the tools that are like, you know, 30 bucks,
Speaker:50 bucks, which again, I know isn't nothing, but it's not a thousand.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's the right tool for the, it's the right tool for the right job.
Speaker:And again, like I, I love that you're on the show because usually we have all of
Speaker:these people I know who, again, are in these like amazing studios, which I love.
Speaker:And mad shout out to everyone watching who is in an amazing studio.
Speaker:I'm lucky enough to be in one here that was built for me, but I think
Speaker:it's really great as a reminder.
Speaker:You don't have to be.
Speaker:And in what, for the content that you're creating and for the audience that you
Speaker:have, there's like this rawness and like you need to be outside in the field.
Speaker:There's like the energy of being at the event.
Speaker:Like all of that you're able to capture in ways that are significantly
Speaker:like easier, I guess, quote unquote, or require less of sort of the
Speaker:overthinking tech full studio setup.
Speaker:So I, I think it's really cool that you can.
Speaker:You can really think through like, what, what is the content that you're creating?
Speaker:You know, who are the listeners, who are the viewers?
Speaker:And you might not need to worry too much about all of these huge tech questions
Speaker:that might be stumbling across your mind.
Speaker:It may not make sense for what you're doing.
Speaker:Like what Matt's doing is working really, really well for him because of the
Speaker:kind of content that you're capturing and the interviews that you're doing.
Speaker:You're sort of there in that moment.
Speaker:There's the energy that's there.
Speaker:You'd almost be, it would almost feel weird and fake, if you like,
Speaker:had obstacle racers or companies come into like a studio space and
Speaker:be like, well, today we're gonna be talking with so and so about, you
Speaker:know, the race that they just did.
Speaker:It wouldn't feel as cool.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But, but I think people still do some of that.
Speaker:Like they think they have to have like the fancy background and or the
Speaker:ones that Zoom gives you or whatever.
Speaker:And I'm just again, that's just not, I'm just not a fan of those.
Speaker:Somebody's asking the name of my show.
Speaker:So the one that we're talking about mostly is the Obstacle Racing Media podcast.
Speaker:I have started others, some that have stuck around and some that
Speaker:haven't, just cause I'm a guy that always needs to be doing more stuff.
Speaker:But I have another show called the Atlanta Podcast and I take a lot of the lessons
Speaker:obviously from the main obstacle show.
Speaker:But that's the one that I'm also currently passionate about.
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:Well, we have done it.
Speaker:We are almost at the hour mark.
Speaker:Is there anything else that you wish I asked you or you would
Speaker:like to share with everyone?
Speaker:You just gave the name of the show and it looks like Paul dropped in your, the
Speaker:link to your podcast, which is awesome.
Speaker:Thank you, Paul.
Speaker:And if you're listening, we'll make sure that the link to the podcast
Speaker:is in the show notes, but again, it's obstacle racing media, so
Speaker:you can certainly look that up.
Speaker:, Again, it's always the same thing.
Speaker:It's make what you love doing.
Speaker:And if that's, that at the end of the day will continue to drive you.
Speaker:Cuz if it's about anything else, it's not gonna, it's not gonna work.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And put out consistent quality content.
Speaker:Like once a week is better than no times a week, once every two
Speaker:weeks is better than no time.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like whatever it is, and just stick to it.
Speaker:And if you mess up, it's no big deal.
Speaker:Just do it.
Speaker:Do one next week.
Speaker:Like, oh shit, I missed it.
Speaker:This happened.
Speaker:I promised people every Friday and it didn't happen.
Speaker:I still don't have a schedule.
Speaker:This many years in like it's mostly Mondays and Wednesdays, but
Speaker:sometimes it's Sundays and Thursdays.
Speaker:And again, people will always tell you, oh, you have to have a certain day.
Speaker:And I've just never been that guy, so I should probably eventually get to it.
Speaker:But at this point it's like people that listen to my show, like
Speaker:they get it when they get it, so.
Speaker:Oh, I love that.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Matt, for hanging out.
Speaker:I so appreciate it and it was great to reconnect.
Speaker:It's reminding me of my trauma from the one and only obstacle
Speaker:race that I did super badly.
Speaker:Which one did you do?
Speaker:I got tricked into doing the Superhero Scramble.
Speaker:I am not athletic.
Speaker:Oh my God.
Speaker:I love that one.
Speaker:I love that one.
Speaker:So, I will end on this story for intense vulnerability for all of
Speaker:our listeners and viewers out there.
Speaker:So I am not even kind of sporty, but I do like the idea of obstacles.
Speaker:And so my husband, his company was doing the Superhero Scramble and they
Speaker:were like, oh, it's all like, You know, it's like, you know, company, all of
Speaker:their team and then, you know, partners and spouses and families and whatever.
Speaker:And this is like super fun.
Speaker:You're gonna dress up like superheroes and it's gonna be like, awesome.
Speaker:And I was like, oh, I've got this.
Speaker:Like, you know, I like, this'll be fun.
Speaker:I can do this.
Speaker:And what ends up always happening with, with my husband is that, He
Speaker:tells me that it's like all of the wives and partners are gonna do it.
Speaker:So like I'm not gonna be the only woman that's there.
Speaker:It's like it's gonna be all of the wives.
Speaker:And inevitably when I get there, it's always just me.
Speaker:Like I'm the only wife that ends up showing up to all of this stuff.
Speaker:So this was the case.
Speaker:So I got to the superhero scramble and I was the only one.
Speaker:And then I looked out over like the group of contestants and I was like, oh.
Speaker:I'm, you know, younger than most of the people that are here.
Speaker:Like, I look like in equal shape to everyone.
Speaker:I got this and the race went, it started and it went straight up a
Speaker:hill, and then you had to go back down the hill and then up the hill again
Speaker:before you got to the first obstacle.
Speaker:Was it Amesbury?
Speaker:I know that.
Speaker:I know that course.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and I went straight up the hill and then I literally just like
Speaker:laid down on the hill and I was like, I can't, I couldn't breathe.
Speaker:I was so winded.
Speaker:And Dane was like, put your hands over your head.
Speaker:And I was like, hi.
Speaker:Hey you.
Speaker:Why did you do this to me?
Speaker:Like, I was just, and everyone was flying by me, and I like,
Speaker:I felt so humiliated and awful.
Speaker:But I will say I finished.
Speaker:Every photo,
Speaker:good job
Speaker:of me I look incredible.
Speaker:Like I wanna frame all of them and look, be like, look how badass I look at all
Speaker:these and I did all of the obstacles.
Speaker:And the obstacles are really fun.
Speaker:I just don't think I can run.
Speaker:I'm just not.
Speaker:Like the obstacles I loved.
Speaker:If it was like just obstacles without the running, I probably would've been, okay.
Speaker:Well listen.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Well, I, I know after to wrap up, Katie, but you know, they do that
Speaker:great race in Fenway every year.
Speaker:You just missed it.
Speaker:It was in November.
Speaker:That one, there's no mud.
Speaker:You go up and down some stairs, you do the obstacles.
Speaker:It's super fun.
Speaker:You get to run in Fenway.
Speaker:So next, next year, we'll send you a free pass.
Speaker:You can do that one, you and your husband.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:I'll happily send it to you.
Speaker:He's done probably.
Speaker:Eight or nine of them, and I go and cheer him on.
Speaker:But that's the only one.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:You might, you might be able to talk me into it.
Speaker:I'll work my way up to it.
Speaker:Fenway would be really cool.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Gretchen says that she's got a ultramarathon in obstacle
Speaker:runners in her family.
Speaker:Gretchen, maybe you have to come and do this with me.
Speaker:Well, that's my, that is my behind the scenes story for the day.
Speaker:But yes, thank you so much for hanging out.
Speaker:And I, yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to jump in and give the podcast to listen.
Speaker:I've listened back in the day and I have my copy of my book,
Speaker:but it's been a while, so.
Speaker:Well thank you for having me on.
Speaker:Thanks so much.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, you have listened to another episode of The Flow and thank you
Speaker:so much for hanging out with us.
Speaker:It has been an honor.
Speaker:I did it.
Speaker:I survived my first solo episode of The Flow Without Doc here.
Speaker:Join me next week as I try again.
Speaker:This episode will be available at all the major podcast platforms next Tuesday.
Speaker:You can find it as always, at flow dot Ecamm dot com.
Speaker:You can leave us reviews at all of your favorite podcast platforms.
Speaker:You can find us on every single one of them.
Speaker:But we would love reviews on Apple because that's the one that matters most.
Speaker:And if you wanna connect with us, you can always find us flow Ecamm
Speaker:dot com or go on over to Volley and leave us a video message so then we
Speaker:can feature it on the show, which we would absolutely love to do.
Speaker:And huge, huge thank you as always to our favorite sponsor, Speedify,
Speaker:who make internet connectivity easy and fun and awesome.
Speaker:They have saved the day more times than I can begin to count.
Speaker:Almost every single time that we do any kind of big video event here
Speaker:from the Amesbury Studio, something goes horribly wrong with the Amesbury
Speaker:internet, so thank God for Speedify or we would be in huge trouble.
Speaker:And if you have not yet signed up for them, they are incredibly affordable.
Speaker:It is the season.
Speaker:Swing on over to Speedify.com and that covers it all for this week.
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