The Flow: Episode 2 - The Future of Podcasting?

Doc Rock: 00:00:25

Welcome to The Flow.

Doc Rock: 00:00:27

I am your podcast host, Doc Rock, the community manager here at Ecamm, along

Doc Rock: 00:00:33

with my awesome co-host Katie Fawkes.

Katie Fawkes: 00:00:35

So excited to be here.

Doc Rock: 00:00:36

Hi Katie.

Doc Rock: 00:00:37

Welcome to The Flow.

Doc Rock: 00:00:38

This is our second episode of The Flow of the first episode is out

Doc Rock: 00:00:42

and in the wild cruising on iTunes.

Doc Rock: 00:00:45

Right now.

Doc Rock: 00:00:45

It's kind of exciting.

Katie Fawkes: 00:00:47

Super exciting.

Katie Fawkes: 00:00:48

And I love today's topic because we are going to be talking

Katie Fawkes: 00:00:51

about the future of podcasting.

Katie Fawkes: 00:00:55

Where are we heading to?

Doc Rock: 00:00:57

I feel like I should've went and got a gigantic crystal

Doc Rock: 00:01:01

ball or something of that nature.

Katie Fawkes: 00:01:03

That would've been really fun.

Doc Rock: 00:01:04

We could have had the, we could, maybe we on graphics afterwards, we can

Doc Rock: 00:01:07

be looking through the crystal ball.

Doc Rock: 00:01:09

There we go.

Doc Rock: 00:01:10

There we go.

Doc Rock: 00:01:10

All right.

Doc Rock: 00:01:10

Cool.

Doc Rock: 00:01:11

We're talking about the future of podcasting.

Doc Rock: 00:01:12

I do wanna say a couple of things, first of all, thank you to all of the people

Doc Rock: 00:01:16

that downloaded the inaugural episode.

Doc Rock: 00:01:19

I really appreciate that's the first it's been super great.

Doc Rock: 00:01:22

Again, folks, if you got this and you liked it, please drop a review.

Doc Rock: 00:01:26

Reviews are very helpful for podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:01:29

If you are creating a podcast, remember to ask your people to drop reviews.

Doc Rock: 00:01:33

Reviews really do help your podcast a lot.

Doc Rock: 00:01:36

It's how the aggregators know who to show the podcast to.

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So, yes, if you enjoy a podcast by all means drop a review,

Doc Rock: 00:01:43

but this has been super fun.

Doc Rock: 00:01:45

It's exciting.

Doc Rock: 00:01:46

And although not my first podcast, it's really cool to birth another

Doc Rock: 00:01:50

podcast and every time it's exciting.

Doc Rock: 00:01:53

I don't know what it's like to have kids, but I wanna say it's like having kids.

Doc Rock: 00:01:57

Except for, I don't have to pay for this.

Katie Fawkes: 00:01:59

Super excited.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:00

Yeah, exactly.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:00

Exactly.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:01

It was super exciting this morning.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:02

I was listening to my usual podcast selection.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:06

I'm like, my top, you know, my top eight that I rotate through.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:09

And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, our podcast is today.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:12

So I was able to search it and find and screenshot it and harass all of you

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:16

good people to make sure that you were subscribed and liked and leaving reviews.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:20

So it was exciting.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:21

And if you're new to this, it's a really fun experience.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:23

And it was so much easier that I thought it would be.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:26

It came together really quickly.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:28

So, yeah, it's been great.

Katie Fawkes: 00:02:29

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:02:30

So remember on Tuesdays, Tuesday mornings, you should find a new episode

Doc Rock: 00:02:34

of The Flow in your podcast aggregator, whichever one you chose and if you happen

Doc Rock: 00:02:40

to like seeing this live, or you have questions about podcasts, you want to

Doc Rock: 00:02:43

come and join us for the live taping.

Doc Rock: 00:02:45

The live taping happens a week in advance at 12:00 PM Eastern

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for now until the clock changes.

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And then you can come and hang out in a studio audience with

Doc Rock: 00:02:54

the cool studio audience, people who are hanging out today.

Doc Rock: 00:02:57

This is quite.

Doc Rock: 00:02:59

Amazing.

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All right, gang.

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So let's get started with episode two.

Doc Rock: 00:03:04

And my favorite thing to say, Katie, would you read the first

Doc Rock: 00:03:07

point to the people at home?

Katie Fawkes: 00:03:09

Where's podcasting headed in the future?

Doc Rock: 00:03:11

I really like this question.

Doc Rock: 00:03:13

It took me some thinking about this, but there are a couple that I have in my head

Doc Rock: 00:03:19

right now that I think are gonna make a big deal when it comes to podcasts.

Doc Rock: 00:03:24

And one of the first ones is the quality of podcasts, the content quality and

Doc Rock: 00:03:31

the quality of podcasts is going up.

Doc Rock: 00:03:33

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:03:33

And now this doesn't mean you need to run out and generate

Doc Rock: 00:03:38

a fantastic podcasting studio.

Doc Rock: 00:03:41

That's not necessarily the only thing related to quality.

Doc Rock: 00:03:45

It is extremely helpful if you do.

Doc Rock: 00:03:48

It is not the most important thing.

Doc Rock: 00:03:51

What is the most important thing is the quality of the

Doc Rock: 00:03:55

content that's in the podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:03:57

And so what happens is in the beginning, you just had podcasts where you could

Doc Rock: 00:04:01

just kind of come and hang out and chill and sort of banter with your friends.

Doc Rock: 00:04:06

And it was entertaining now that we're fighting against 2 million other podcasts.

Doc Rock: 00:04:12

I don't think you have to do that.

Doc Rock: 00:04:14

Right.

Doc Rock: 00:04:14

I think now people are going to be looking for either entertainment or

Doc Rock: 00:04:19

information and they're coming to you because they're looking to you

Doc Rock: 00:04:23

as a provider of that type of stuff.

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So I think it is extremely important nowadays that you

Doc Rock: 00:04:30

pull good quality content.

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Take your time, write your stuff out in the beginning, have a show flow.

Doc Rock: 00:04:38

If you will, you can deviate from your show flow.

Doc Rock: 00:04:41

But you should have a basics, right?

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:42

Yep.

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:43

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:43

And I mean, really again, this is the entire point of this show is to

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:47

really get you thinking through the importance of planning it out in

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:50

advance, having a workflow that works for what you're trying to accomplish.

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:54

So, you know, with this show again, you know, we're really trying to show the

Katie Fawkes: 00:04:58

power of mixing together, both video and audio, as well as text, to be able

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:03

to be picked up by search engines.

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:04

You know, we're thinking through that, but always with

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:06

the focus of the content first.

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:08

So, you know, what is the content you wanna share?

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:10

What's the value you wanna bring?

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:11

And what's the best way to get that out to the most amount of people?

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:15

When we're thinking about video podcasts, you know, that's just being

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:18

able to extend out the audience past only podcast listeners into the world

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:22

of YouTube, you know, likely other spaces that will trim up these video

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:27

clips and be able to share them.

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:28

So that matters more in many ways than how good your camera quality is

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:33

or whether or not you have splashy intro music or cool graphics.

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:37

The actual value in the content that you're bringing is the most important

Katie Fawkes: 00:05:40

part of any kind of live show or podcast or content that you're creating.

Doc Rock: 00:05:45

I agree with that a hundred percent.

Doc Rock: 00:05:47

Now, the other point that I think is very important to the future of podcasting and

Doc Rock: 00:05:51

something that I think those folks who are getting into this should probably take a

Doc Rock: 00:05:56

look at podcasting as a marketing tool.

Doc Rock: 00:06:01

Now that sounds crazy, but we're doing it.

Doc Rock: 00:06:04

I mean, you're watching this.

Doc Rock: 00:06:06

Watch this people.

Doc Rock: 00:06:06

This is how we do it.

Doc Rock: 00:06:08

We are Ecamm.

Doc Rock: 00:06:09

We create a amazing software, but we, I mean, Ken and Glen create an

Doc Rock: 00:06:14

amazing software that allows someone who wanted to say, start a podcast,

Doc Rock: 00:06:19

to easily download Ecamm, set up your scenes, invite your guests.

Doc Rock: 00:06:24

Off to the races, like very, very simple.

Doc Rock: 00:06:27

Now we could spend a lot of time just writing Google ads or Facebook ads,

Doc Rock: 00:06:33

and we could spend a lot of time just trying to show up in the Mac magazines

Doc Rock: 00:06:37

or whatever, or we could generate a podcast answering the frequently asked

Doc Rock: 00:06:43

questions about mm-hmm whatever your product is about, showing how it works

Doc Rock: 00:06:48

in a lifestyle, talking to the users, finding various use case in scenarios

Doc Rock: 00:06:54

and explaining that through a podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:06:56

Fantastic marketing tool.

Doc Rock: 00:06:58

There's a couple of my apps that I love.

Doc Rock: 00:07:00

Day One has been doing this for a long time.

Doc Rock: 00:07:02

I love the Day One journaling app and they use their podcast as a

Doc Rock: 00:07:08

combination of community building tech support and marketing the app.

Doc Rock: 00:07:12

I mean, when I first downloaded the app, I wasn't sure if I was gonna

Doc Rock: 00:07:15

go pro or not, and I should just listen to the podcast and probably

Doc Rock: 00:07:18

within about the third episode, I'm like, yep, I'm getting a pro version.

Doc Rock: 00:07:21

And way back in the day, Phil Lubic used to do a Evernote podcast back

Doc Rock: 00:07:27

when I was a green elephant guy.

Doc Rock: 00:07:28

And again, like I was all about the product from the podcast and

Doc Rock: 00:07:32

you generated your community and look at all these people hanging

Doc Rock: 00:07:35

out in a live studio audience.

Doc Rock: 00:07:36

Our studio audience is our community members.

Doc Rock: 00:07:39

And then there's new people that are gonna bump in and be like, Hey, that Mr.

Doc Rock: 00:07:43

Moderator guy's kind of cute.

Doc Rock: 00:07:44

I wanna hang out over here.

Doc Rock: 00:07:46

You know, like these people know what they're talking about and they help you.

Doc Rock: 00:07:50

So rather than just yelling out in the street, like the old cough syrup

Doc Rock: 00:07:56

salesperson, you know, circa 1920s, you can be a community member of your

Doc Rock: 00:08:02

own community and talk about things and invite folks into the conversation.

Doc Rock: 00:08:06

Have bidirectional conversation.

Doc Rock: 00:08:08

Podcast is one of the best marketing tools out there after live video, of course.

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:13

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:14

Well, and, and it's crazy because not only are you getting out in front of a much

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:18

wider audience than you ever would've been able to with more traditional advertising

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:22

and marketing tactics and platforms, but you have that immediate conversation

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:27

and immediate reaction and feedback from your customers, from your potential

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:32

customers right here in the live chat.

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:34

So, you know, we'll get immediate questions and feedback and

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:37

pain points, all of that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:38

We'll be able to use to continue to build and grow our content.

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:42

So not only are we making it easier for people on the other end who wanna learn

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:47

more about what this is like or whatever it is that you're sharing or teaching or

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:50

talking about in your show, but you'll also figure out pretty quickly what's

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:54

relevant and what's not relevant from your customers in a way that, you know, used

Katie Fawkes: 00:08:58

to require case studies and a ton of time and effort and a lot of luck . So now,

Katie Fawkes: 00:09:04

if you're, if you can be really clever about it and really strategic about it,

Katie Fawkes: 00:09:07

you can get to know your customers really quickly build those relationships, but

Katie Fawkes: 00:09:10

you also can listen to them and hear what it is that they're struggling with.

Katie Fawkes: 00:09:14

It is that's important to them.

Katie Fawkes: 00:09:15

I really think that in many ways, that's the future of marketing as

Katie Fawkes: 00:09:18

well as the future of podcasting and certainly of video podcasting.

Doc Rock: 00:09:21

That's very true.

Doc Rock: 00:09:22

Very, very true.

Doc Rock: 00:09:24

I really do love the concept of just sort of building a bidirectional conversation

Doc Rock: 00:09:29

around your product, using a podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:09:31

It is one of the best ways to do it.

Doc Rock: 00:09:34

And it's fun.

Doc Rock: 00:09:36

There you go.

Doc Rock: 00:09:36

There's the other part.

Doc Rock: 00:09:37

Yes.

Doc Rock: 00:09:38

It's fun.

Doc Rock: 00:09:38

I do kind of appreciate that.

Doc Rock: 00:09:40

So yeah, that's my two number one things is I think improving the

Doc Rock: 00:09:44

quality of your podcast helps.

Doc Rock: 00:09:46

Yes, you can add more things to make it sound better.

Doc Rock: 00:09:49

And all of that we've been reminded of this week.

Doc Rock: 00:09:52

There is a fantastic tool called Krisp, which people can use if you

Doc Rock: 00:09:56

just want to like, get better sound out of the microphone you already own.

Doc Rock: 00:10:00

Krisp is extremely helpful.

Katie Fawkes: 00:10:02

Mm-hmm okay.

Doc Rock: 00:10:03

Yes with a K.

Doc Rock: 00:10:04

K R I S P makes me think of British potato chips.

Doc Rock: 00:10:08

Yeah, exactly.

Doc Rock: 00:10:09

And then, you know, just again, having your content set up in a way and building

Doc Rock: 00:10:14

a show flow, just adding that little bit of polish, and this is something

Doc Rock: 00:10:18

that Ecamm can help you out with, right?

Doc Rock: 00:10:20

Using us, makes it so much easier to be polished out of the gate.

Doc Rock: 00:10:23

You eliminate some of the hassle.

Doc Rock: 00:10:24

I would love to hear what Mr.

Doc Rock: 00:10:27

Camera Junkie, Luis, thought about editing the first show, the way we

Doc Rock: 00:10:30

sent it to him as a video first versus audio, we instantly, when I edit audio

Doc Rock: 00:10:35

only, I've done it thousands of times.

Doc Rock: 00:10:37

It's different when you have something visual to work off of and he can delete

Doc Rock: 00:10:40

the video part, but to me, it's easier to edit with the visual perspective as

Doc Rock: 00:10:45

long as your computer can swing that.

Doc Rock: 00:10:46

Absolutely.

Doc Rock: 00:10:47

Okay.

Doc Rock: 00:10:48

Let's get into the next quick case.

Katie Fawkes: 00:10:50

What trends are we seeing in podcasting?

Doc Rock: 00:10:52

Right.

Doc Rock: 00:10:53

Oh, I like this.

Doc Rock: 00:10:54

I like this.

Doc Rock: 00:10:55

It's very, very, very good.

Doc Rock: 00:10:57

Okay.

Doc Rock: 00:10:57

So let me talk about the first trend.

Doc Rock: 00:10:59

I think the future in podcasting, not dissimilar from video in general or

Doc Rock: 00:11:04

even social media is hyper niching.

Doc Rock: 00:11:07

And I know people hate to hear that.

Doc Rock: 00:11:10

I know people hate to hear that because they wanna do seven things.

Doc Rock: 00:11:13

I am a Swiss Army nerd.

Doc Rock: 00:11:15

I completely understand, you know, you open up the Swiss Army knife.

Doc Rock: 00:11:19

It's got all these various tools and things like that.

Doc Rock: 00:11:21

My likes, my wants, my desires, my passions.

Doc Rock: 00:11:24

They're like that.

Doc Rock: 00:11:25

And it just comes with an ADD brain.

Doc Rock: 00:11:27

However, people are coming to you for a very, very particular thing.

Doc Rock: 00:11:33

Right?

Doc Rock: 00:11:33

If all of a sudden the McDonald's started selling big screen TVs,

Doc Rock: 00:11:38

I don't think any of us are gonna buy a yellow and red clown logo TV.

Doc Rock: 00:11:44

That's just not how it works.

Doc Rock: 00:11:45

People are looking for that hyper hyper niche.

Doc Rock: 00:11:50

I think it's time to drill it down.

Doc Rock: 00:11:53

So here's a prime example.

Doc Rock: 00:11:55

We're Ecamm Live.

Doc Rock: 00:11:56

We could have made this podcast about a myriad of things, but

Doc Rock: 00:11:59

we're making this podcast about podcasting, not about live streaming.

Doc Rock: 00:12:05

Even though that's our primary focus, if you will.

Doc Rock: 00:12:07

Yeah, absolutely.

Doc Rock: 00:12:09

We're also forcing all of our live audience to hold all of their usual level

Doc Rock: 00:12:14

of enthusiasm and questions about all things video and all things Ecamm fam

Doc Rock: 00:12:19

and all the upcoming events that we have going on to other forums, other places

Doc Rock: 00:12:23

later times, because we do really wanna be able to keep as focused as possible

Doc Rock: 00:12:27

so that people who are discovering podcasting and joining us live in the

Doc Rock: 00:12:32

future are going to be able to get the value that they want and get the check

Doc Rock: 00:12:35

mark for the thing that they searched for.

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:37

Right.

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:37

There's nothing more frustrating than searching for this specific dishwasher

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:42

that I have is broken and getting like an interview with a plumber about

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:45

the future of dishwashing, right?

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:47

Like that that's not gonna solve that problem for you.

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:50

So what we really wanna try with this specific podcast, and what we'd

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:52

encourage everyone to embrace, is to really think through what those pain

Katie Fawkes: 00:12:57

points are and what the goals are of your listeners, of your viewers, and

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:01

make sure that you're hitting that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:02

It's okay to go off a little bit here and there and, you know, add

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:05

your personality and add those real authentic moments that people can

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:08

get to know you better, but they're there to listen for a specific reason.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:12

And that can be entertainment.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:13

There's lots of amazing podcasts out there that are meant to be

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:16

conversational and to have debates and to be entertaining and or comedic.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:20

But if yours is about a set topic, then you should try to

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:23

stick to that as best as you can.

Doc Rock: 00:13:25

I'm sorry about my random acts of comedic.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:28

No, I think you could have random acts of comedic.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:31

I keep thinking to my usual podcast line up.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:34

There's one I listen to.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:35

It's got a hilarious comedy duo who read obituaries out loud to each other.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:40

Right.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:41

Super specific meant to be really funny.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:44

And now they add like every single episode, there's, you know, an additional

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:47

kind of weird like death related topic or like weird things that they've added in,

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:52

but they've stayed on topic even though their topic is so incredibly specific.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:57

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:57

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:13:57

But they've built this really big audience and they've built this

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:00

audience around it and people that come to listen and again, it's totally

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:04

entertainment, but they've found a topic and they've really niched down and

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:07

they're doing really well as a result.

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:09

It's like nothing anyone has heard before, you know, they

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:11

have a very specific audience.

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:12

So, you know, whether it's educational or it's fun, you know,

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:15

pick your topic and your focus.

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:17

Figure out who your audience is, and really, really stay to that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:20

That's where we're gonna be able to differentiate ourselves against

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:23

the 2 million, the 3 million, the 5 million in the future other

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:27

podcasts that are out there.

Doc Rock: 00:14:28

You know, it's funny you say that because you know that my secret

Doc Rock: 00:14:31

love is TCO, which I'm pretty much not in their demographic, but hey, it's so good.

Doc Rock: 00:14:36

And I watched true crime stuff.

Doc Rock: 00:14:37

You're reinvent.

Doc Rock: 00:14:38

Because I just like the process.

Doc Rock: 00:14:40

I think I wanted to be a detective when I was a little kid.

Doc Rock: 00:14:42

I don't know why I really enjoy that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:14:44

Same, same.

Doc Rock: 00:14:44

So what's really amazing is they're taking a topic that's

Doc Rock: 00:14:48

really a lot to handle, but they bring brevity to it and they bring

Doc Rock: 00:14:52

brevity to it in their respectful ways.

Doc Rock: 00:14:54

Like, hey, this, we understand families are hurting.

Doc Rock: 00:14:56

We understand victims are out there, but we want you to

Doc Rock: 00:14:59

take a different look at it.

Doc Rock: 00:15:01

They've actually been able to help solve some unsolved crimes,

Doc Rock: 00:15:06

which I think is incredible that there's people searching around.

Doc Rock: 00:15:10

I recently discovered this thing called the Jane Doe Network or the

Doc Rock: 00:15:13

Doe Network is properly what it is.

Doc Rock: 00:15:15

And, you know, they're able to find people through their podcast, listeners

Doc Rock: 00:15:19

of this genre that just exploded on podcast, which is true crime now.

Doc Rock: 00:15:24

Yes, there's a whole network and that other stuff, but the network doesn't allow

Doc Rock: 00:15:27

the people to have conversation around it, all of these forums and communities

Doc Rock: 00:15:31

and Discords that are happening.

Doc Rock: 00:15:33

These people are working together and they're helping out.

Doc Rock: 00:15:37

Families get closure on situations.

Doc Rock: 00:15:39

And to me like it's chicken skin, right?

Doc Rock: 00:15:41

Not because it's scary, but because it's endearing that people are

Doc Rock: 00:15:45

able to help each other like that.

Doc Rock: 00:15:46

So that's one of the advantages of a hyper niche is you can

Doc Rock: 00:15:50

build a community of like-minded people and oftentimes like-minded

Doc Rock: 00:15:54

people can help move the needle.

Doc Rock: 00:15:56

There's a story back in the day where TiVo was getting themselves into some trouble,

Doc Rock: 00:16:01

not really realizing what they were doing, cuz they were all over the map and the

Doc Rock: 00:16:05

community helped formulate what ended up being the product that ran the game for

Doc Rock: 00:16:10

a minute until we got video on demand.

Doc Rock: 00:16:12

So you know, it's very much so that just all of you guys hanging out in the Ecamm

Doc Rock: 00:16:16

community as you guys talk and you talk about things you wanna see in the app.

Doc Rock: 00:16:20

Like just yesterday.

Doc Rock: 00:16:21

So this is why hyper niching can help as a creator.

Doc Rock: 00:16:25

It lets you know, what your audience wants and you might be able to add

Doc Rock: 00:16:29

things to your product lineup and fix it.

Doc Rock: 00:16:32

Or you guys as a total community can work together as a voice.

Doc Rock: 00:16:36

For whatever it is, you're talking about, whether it's ancient Mesopotamium

Doc Rock: 00:16:40

spin art or, you know, cycling, who knows whatever you guys are into.

Katie Fawkes: 00:16:44

Absolutely.

Doc Rock: 00:16:45

Very cool.

Doc Rock: 00:16:45

Okay.

Doc Rock: 00:16:46

We got another part to this.

Doc Rock: 00:16:47

I think that the second part of this, of where the future of

Doc Rock: 00:16:52

podcast is heading, and this is gonna sound super cheeky people.

Doc Rock: 00:16:56

I don't mean it's to sound cheeky, but it is the truth.

Doc Rock: 00:16:58

It's video podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:17:00

Or podcasting.

Doc Rock: 00:17:02

I know this sounds weird as you're watching us record a podcast or

Doc Rock: 00:17:05

listening to what was taped in front of a live studio audience, I think the

Doc Rock: 00:17:10

podcast brings a whole nother element.

Doc Rock: 00:17:14

Our whole first episode was why video podcasting.

Doc Rock: 00:17:18

So we cover that in detail already, but the reason why I see this as a future,

Doc Rock: 00:17:23

number one, I strongly believe this and I'm gonna keep saying it until it's real,

Doc Rock: 00:17:26

because that's how manifesting works.

Doc Rock: 00:17:29

YouTube is gonna make a podcast segment of their situation and the minute they

Doc Rock: 00:17:34

do that, the faucet is open, you know, Black Friday, Walmart VCR on sale for $10.

Doc Rock: 00:17:40

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:17:40

That's about to go down that, that is.

Katie Fawkes: 00:17:42

I mean, and we're already seeing that anyway.

Katie Fawkes: 00:17:45

You have platforms like Spotify, for example, that are adding on

Katie Fawkes: 00:17:48

video podcasting and, kind of going back to what you said last week.

Katie Fawkes: 00:17:52

You know, you had this where it was very segmented out.

Katie Fawkes: 00:17:55

You had video podcasts on this side and audio podcasts on this side.

Katie Fawkes: 00:17:58

And then they kind of came together into this one space.

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:00

And now we are seeing the platform starting to notice the value in

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:03

video now that more and more of us have the right equipment and

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:06

are doing more live streaming.

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:08

I think you are gonna start to see many more of these platforms.

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:10

Say like, oh, shoot.

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:12

People do want to be able to consume content in this way, or maybe they, for

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:16

the most part, listen to the podcast audio only while they're driving or

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:20

running or doing chores or whatever else, but they wanna be able to tune in to a

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:24

live studio audience, or they wanna be able to do these kind of video events,

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:28

you know, more and more podcasters who are doing these, you know, instead

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:31

of being out there on the road, doing these kind of road shows or at events

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:34

or doing these video experiences so that they're able to interact with fans.

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:38

I think you're gonna continue to see more of that and you're gonna see the platforms

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:42

be it Spotify, YouTube, probably even Apple jumping into this space of really

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:46

wanting to be able to embrace that and giving a space for video and for fans

Katie Fawkes: 00:18:50

to be able to interact with video.

Doc Rock: 00:18:51

You know, what's funny that you mentioned the video event side of this.

Doc Rock: 00:18:54

I wanted to add that to my checklist, but I thought it might scare

Doc Rock: 00:18:57

people and it shouldn't be scary.

Doc Rock: 00:18:59

I just know that when I say things, it scares people because they

Doc Rock: 00:19:02

think I'm gonna make it expensive.

Doc Rock: 00:19:05

I'll say it, but it doesn't have to be, I really agree with you.

Doc Rock: 00:19:08

Okay.

Doc Rock: 00:19:09

For instance, at Social Media Marketing World, when we have the Ecamm party.

Doc Rock: 00:19:13

It would've been really cool had we, you know, known that we were gonna do this.

Doc Rock: 00:19:17

We didn't even know we were gonna do this back then to record a live studio

Doc Rock: 00:19:20

taping of The Flow with everyone there.

Doc Rock: 00:19:24

And it would've just been fantastic.

Doc Rock: 00:19:25

We had a lot of people in the room.

Doc Rock: 00:19:27

There was a lot of energy and a dog.

Doc Rock: 00:19:29

It was really cool.

Doc Rock: 00:19:30

It was fun.

Doc Rock: 00:19:31

And we could have recorded the day version where everything was nice.

Doc Rock: 00:19:35

And then we could have recorded the night version where we had amazing

Doc Rock: 00:19:39

cocktail with the E printed on the top that I don't know what was in it.

Doc Rock: 00:19:42

But it worked.

Doc Rock: 00:19:43

That's all I gotta say.

Doc Rock: 00:19:44

I'm gonna leave it.

Katie Fawkes: 00:19:45

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:19:45

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:19:46

And you have platforms like Moment House, for example, that are really

Katie Fawkes: 00:19:49

being very clever and they're partnering with a lot of these like very well

Katie Fawkes: 00:19:52

known, huge fan based podcasts and podcasters, and are creating these

Katie Fawkes: 00:19:56

really amazing virtual experiences that were originally designed to help

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:01

during the pandemic for podcasters who had an active tour schedule and weren't

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:06

physically able to get out there on tour.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:07

But I think now you're starting to see and likely going forward a hybrid mix of that,

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:12

where you're gonna have some podcasters that are gonna hit the road and do kind

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:15

of an in person meet and greet with all of their fans and attend all these events.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:19

They're likely also, still going to have that virtual aspect for fans who can't

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:22

get there, who live in other countries.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:24

And it's just too cumbersome or to make it just feel really inclusive

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:28

and special and inviting in a way that an in-person event may not be able to

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:31

do due to budget or special guests or schedules or a number of other things.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:36

So, yeah, I think it's a really neat, it opens up a ton of doors that if

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:40

you're sitting there and you're saying, oh, I'm an audio only podcast haven't

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:43

really thought about video or maybe you're a streamer, but your podcast

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:45

is separate and it's still audio only.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:47

I think that you don't necessarily need to fully jump into switching

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:51

it all over to video podcasts.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:53

You could start by doing video events for your community and for

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:56

your listeners and see what they think about it and go from there.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:59

It at least gets.

Katie Fawkes: 00:20:59

Some of that video content and kind of your foot in the door.

Doc Rock: 00:21:02

That is a brilliant transition way to do it.

Doc Rock: 00:21:06

Like basically do live streams and, you know, live events or video rundowns,

Doc Rock: 00:21:13

like say you covered something in detail that require a visual aspect,

Doc Rock: 00:21:16

you can generate a video tutorial.

Doc Rock: 00:21:18

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:21:18

But with it, you can do after show parties in your Discord or whatever.

Doc Rock: 00:21:21

So, yep.

Doc Rock: 00:21:22

I like that.

Doc Rock: 00:21:23

And speaking of transitions, okay, now we can make radio oriented.

Doc Rock: 00:21:27

Let's get into our last play for today.

Doc Rock: 00:21:29

All right.

Katie Fawkes: 00:21:29

So what can podcasters do to make sure that they're staying relevant?

Katie Fawkes: 00:21:33

How do you stay relevant?

Doc Rock: 00:21:34

Oh, this is such a good question.

Doc Rock: 00:21:37

This is a good question.

Doc Rock: 00:21:38

Whether you're podcasting or not, this one actually, how can we all stay relevant?

Doc Rock: 00:21:43

Yeah, it actually made me spark the old nogging a little bit.

Doc Rock: 00:21:47

I think one of the most important things you could do is really know your content.

Doc Rock: 00:21:55

I know that sounds obvious, but it is.

Doc Rock: 00:21:59

Okay.

Doc Rock: 00:22:00

So it is, but you, it should, it's obvious for a reason, for sure.

Doc Rock: 00:22:02

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:22:03

It's obvious for a reason.

Doc Rock: 00:22:04

Thank you for helping me find a way to say something that my

Doc Rock: 00:22:06

brain wasn't going to catch onto.

Doc Rock: 00:22:08

Let me explain this in a nutshell, anyone who's ever rolled up on a five

Doc Rock: 00:22:13

year old and accidentally mentioned the word dinosaur or something dinosaur

Doc Rock: 00:22:18

related, you will get a 15 minute Ted Talk about the triceratops and the

Doc Rock: 00:22:25

way that the triceratops technically should have been the most dominant

Doc Rock: 00:22:30

dinosaur, but T, tyrannosaurus rex or T-Rex as they call it.

Doc Rock: 00:22:34

I don't know why they call tyrannosaurus rex, it's just T-Rex.

Doc Rock: 00:22:37

But man, like literally a super long Ted Talk from a five year old about

Doc Rock: 00:22:42

dinosaurs with a level of confidence as if they were Malcolm freaking Gladwell.

Doc Rock: 00:22:48

So the people who say I'm shy or I'm this, or I'm that, go five years

Doc Rock: 00:22:56

old again, because you weren't fully understanding what that meant back then.

Doc Rock: 00:23:01

So you were willing to tell anybody who would listen about

Doc Rock: 00:23:05

race cars, fire engines, dinosaurs.

Doc Rock: 00:23:08

Or your dogs, your cats, your grandmother's house, Disneyland...

Doc Rock: 00:23:12

Some people never grow out of it.

Doc Rock: 00:23:14

Rob, I'm looking at you.

Doc Rock: 00:23:15

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:23:16

So if you go back to your children, your nieces or nephews, anybody you

Doc Rock: 00:23:20

can think of that's under the age of 10 and the level of confidence that they

Doc Rock: 00:23:25

talk to you about whatever is their particular thing is that week, I believe

Doc Rock: 00:23:30

Katie's is like eight and I'm sure she will have a full 10 talk with you.

Doc Rock: 00:23:36

Right.

Doc Rock: 00:23:36

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:23:37

And no problems.

Doc Rock: 00:23:38

Like she will just sit down, mom, listen to this.

Doc Rock: 00:23:41

And Katie's like okay.

Doc Rock: 00:23:42

And she's crocheting and there's this full on Scarlett Ted talk.

Doc Rock: 00:23:48

So thank you for coming through.

Katie Fawkes: 00:23:49

Yeah, exactly.

Katie Fawkes: 00:23:50

And I think the, what goes along with that too, is the

Katie Fawkes: 00:23:53

level of enthusiasm and passion.

Katie Fawkes: 00:23:56

So, you know, think back to what you were most excited about when you were a kid.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:00

And think to what you're most excited about right now.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:03

So that is the topic that your podcast should be about.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:06

That is the topic that you should be sharing is what excites you

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:09

and what makes you passionate.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:10

So passionate that it overcomes some of that fear or the camera confidence

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:14

challenges that you've been having, or all of the reasons why you shouldn't

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:18

or the reasons why not video, not yet.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:21

That level of passion should overcome that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:23

So what's the thing that you're great at?

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:24

What's the thing that you love to do?

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:26

What do you wanna talk about?

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:28

What excites you?

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:28

And if it's not a topic, maybe it's a cohost.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:31

Sometimes it's easier to do this kind of thing and be on with

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:34

someone else to bounce ideas off of.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:36

Don't let the tech get in the way of you being able to do something fantastic.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:40

You know, if you can niche down to the specific thing that you're awesome

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:43

at, that makes what you're passionate about slightly different than everyone

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:46

else than, you know, taking it back.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:48

You found that place.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:49

So double down on that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:51

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: 00:24:51

Get excited about it.

Doc Rock: 00:24:53

Yes.

Doc Rock: 00:24:53

It's so funny, but it's a hundred percent true.

Doc Rock: 00:24:55

Like that level of effervescence that comes outta you when you are on

Doc Rock: 00:25:00

about something that you're on about, for me, it's Red Sox, the Raiders,

Doc Rock: 00:25:03

Manchester United, Japanese whiskey.

Doc Rock: 00:25:05

Like again, I have a whole bunch.

Doc Rock: 00:25:08

I like the concept of teaching people, how to get out what they have

Doc Rock: 00:25:11

stuck in them, because yes it is.

Doc Rock: 00:25:14

You know, and for instance, for me in my neighborhood, I don't get to have

Doc Rock: 00:25:17

lots of conversations with people about my love for Manchester United, right?

Doc Rock: 00:25:22

There's America.

Doc Rock: 00:25:23

We're not a very football round country.

Doc Rock: 00:25:26

We're a football long country.

Doc Rock: 00:25:27

And so everybody wants to talk about the Raiders.

Doc Rock: 00:25:29

I'm wanting to talk about Manchester United.

Doc Rock: 00:25:31

So on a podcast, I can generate that because it's global.

Doc Rock: 00:25:35

Right?

Doc Rock: 00:25:35

I can have that conversation.

Doc Rock: 00:25:37

See, you know, it can be old video games.

Doc Rock: 00:25:39

It can be something like old, small block Chevys, not just vintage cars

Doc Rock: 00:25:44

or muscle cars, we're gonna take it all the way to the small block Chevy.

Doc Rock: 00:25:47

You can go extremely niche.

Doc Rock: 00:25:49

Kathy Hester is currently doing all this content around a product

Doc Rock: 00:25:54

called a Ninja Creamy, family.

Doc Rock: 00:25:56

This is an ice cream maker.

Katie Fawkes: 00:25:58

It is the season for this!

Doc Rock: 00:26:00

And now everybody want one.

Doc Rock: 00:26:02

And I'm like, I can't believe she had me looking at that thing.

Doc Rock: 00:26:05

And I'm like, I do not need that.

Doc Rock: 00:26:06

I don't want that.

Doc Rock: 00:26:07

Okay, but I was invested.

Katie Fawkes: 00:26:09

But you kinda do!

Katie Fawkes: 00:26:11

Stop it,

Doc Rock: 00:26:12

Katie.

Doc Rock: 00:26:12

Stop it.

Doc Rock: 00:26:13

Before Katie makes me buy this ice cream machine.

Doc Rock: 00:26:16

Let me cover the next part about staying relevant to me.

Doc Rock: 00:26:19

This is my thing.

Doc Rock: 00:26:20

You can disagree with me.

Doc Rock: 00:26:21

And that is kind of the thing I believe is to challenge the assumptions.

Doc Rock: 00:26:26

Anybody who knows me really well knows I'm very good at this.

Doc Rock: 00:26:30

And it's part of my critical thinking.

Doc Rock: 00:26:33

I've labeled myself a critical thinker.

Doc Rock: 00:26:35

At some point I've studied the process.

Doc Rock: 00:26:37

I've looked into it on deeper scale.

Doc Rock: 00:26:39

I believe that there is something really, really enlightening about challenging

Doc Rock: 00:26:45

the assumptions now, challenging assumptions doesn't mean you have to

Doc Rock: 00:26:48

go all out to try to negate things.

Doc Rock: 00:26:50

It's just about to look at them on a deeper level.

So for instance: 00:26:53

assumption is in order to make a podcast, you need

So for instance: 00:26:56

to make a silent room with a couple of good mics and you can just talk.

So for instance: 00:26:59

And my assumption is you should start with a video because it's so much

So for instance: 00:27:03

easier, the level of interaction and just seeing your cohost as you're

So for instance: 00:27:09

recording, as opposed to just listening to your cohost as a different level of

So for instance: 00:27:14

excitement, even if you delete the video.

So for instance: 00:27:16

So us creating a video first focus for podcast that is challenging the

So for instance: 00:27:21

assumptions of what a podcast is, right?

So for instance: 00:27:25

What do live streamers look like?

So for instance: 00:27:26

Gamers who are really, really good at some first person shooter

So for instance: 00:27:30

or, you know, Madden or whatever.

So for instance: 00:27:33

Live streaming is business people reaching out to help people like bring that?

So for instance: 00:27:38

Yeah.

So for instance: 00:27:38

That, you know, I mean, my side helpful, the whole industry is

So for instance: 00:27:41

talking about how do I generate a side hustle to make more money?

So for instance: 00:27:44

And I'm out here talking about how to generate a side helpful

So for instance: 00:27:47

to make more money, help people.

So for instance: 00:27:48

You make more money.

So for instance: 00:27:49

It's super simple.

So for instance: 00:27:50

Yeah.

So for instance: 00:27:50

So challenging assumptions, regardless of what's going on in your industry

So for instance: 00:27:54

is a fantastic way to stay relevant.

So for instance: 00:27:57

Absolutely.

So for instance: 00:27:58

Yep.

So for instance: 00:27:58

Couldn't agree.

So for instance: 00:27:59

All right.

So for instance: 00:28:00

Here's the last one.

So for instance: 00:28:01

And I want everyone to listen to this one closely.

So for instance: 00:28:04

One, it will warm my heart.

So for instance: 00:28:06

B, you're never gonna believe this is gonna come outta my face.

So for instance: 00:28:12

and I was gonna say B and three is one B three, one B three.

So for instance: 00:28:17

You know, and the last point about this is I think you can

So for instance: 00:28:23

use this to your advantage.

So for instance: 00:28:24

Here we go.

So for instance: 00:28:24

Let me, let me, stretch for this one, cuz it's gonna be a good.

So for instance: 00:28:28

Regardless of your gear.

So for instance: 00:28:29

I want you to treat your podcast show like it's being produced by NPR.

So for instance: 00:28:36

I'm gonna say that again.

So for instance: 00:28:38

I don't care if you're starting in your bathroom with your iPhone,

So for instance: 00:28:41

believe it or not in your car with the doors locked tight.

So for instance: 00:28:45

And the engine off is a fantastic audio booth.

So for instance: 00:28:49

It is basically silent in there unless you have a really old car.

So for instance: 00:28:54

I don't care where you're starting, treat your show like

So for instance: 00:28:57

you're running an NPR level show.

So for instance: 00:29:00

If you are unfamiliar with what an NPR level show is, go download one.

So for instance: 00:29:05

Hidden Brain is one of my favorites.

So for instance: 00:29:08

This American Life.

So for instance: 00:29:09

Right.

So for instance: 00:29:09

Download one of these NPR shows and listen to it.

So for instance: 00:29:13

Hear how they do it.

So for instance: 00:29:16

And like, I'm just starting out.

So for instance: 00:29:17

I don't know exactly how they do it, but model yourself like that.

So for instance: 00:29:21

And here's what I mean by that.

So for instance: 00:29:22

Many people will take up golf today and say, I wanna model

So for instance: 00:29:26

myself after Tiger Woods or Jack Nicholson or somebody famous.

So for instance: 00:29:31

Right.

So for instance: 00:29:31

If you're gonna take up cooking, you're gonna follow one of your

So for instance: 00:29:34

famous chefs that you like.

So for instance: 00:29:35

And, yep.

So for instance: 00:29:36

It's the same thing.

So for instance: 00:29:37

If you're gonna take up podcasting, NPR is one of the best in the business.

So for instance: 00:29:41

Ira Glass.

So for instance: 00:29:42

Come on, fam right?

So for instance: 00:29:44

Malcolm Gladwell, another one.

So for instance: 00:29:45

I'm mentioning him twice a day.

So for instance: 00:29:46

What's going on?

So for instance: 00:29:47

I know it's a Malcolm Gladwell, J Arod you know, any of these people

So for instance: 00:29:52

listen to their podcast, hear how they do it and treat yourself like that.

So for instance: 00:29:57

Don't always start out with the, hey, I'm just beginning mentality.

So for instance: 00:30:01

Because it's easy to stay there.

So for instance: 00:30:03

You can be just beginning, but you don't have to treat yourself that way.

So for instance: 00:30:07

You could treat yourself like a thousand million folks are listening.

So for instance: 00:30:11

Right.

So for instance: 00:30:12

So spend a little time on, again, your running show, a little bit of polish, you

So for instance: 00:30:17

know, Sign your guests up when your guests come on, give them the full red carpet

So for instance: 00:30:22

treatment, cuz here's what's gonna happen.

So for instance: 00:30:24

You're gonna accidentally get a humongous guest on your show.

Katie Fawkes: 00:30:28

So true.

Katie Fawkes: 00:30:29

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:30:30

And they will say, oh my God, you will not believe the

Doc Rock: 00:30:34

level of intent this person had.

Doc Rock: 00:30:38

And.

Doc Rock: 00:30:39

We were in the same place about the time, but I got a podcast invite

Doc Rock: 00:30:44

or a live show invite from Yvi Heimann, who's an Ecamm member.

Doc Rock: 00:30:49

And later Kirk, uh, Kirk, I say nugget it's Nugent, and they sent this

Doc Rock: 00:30:54

list of what they wanted to happen.

Doc Rock: 00:30:57

When you came to their show and I was like, wow, impressed.

Doc Rock: 00:31:02

Yeah.

Doc Rock: 00:31:02

And I mean, they nailed the experience.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:03

And I couldn't agree more.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:05

And I was talking the other day about what brands are looking for, you know,

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:09

as you're trying to get up and running with sponsorships, or, trying to

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:13

partner with brands, making people feel special is one of the top things that

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:18

you can do, whether you're like a brand new podcaster or, you know, or you've

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:22

been doing it for forever, having that experience where they feel as though.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:26

Even if they've never been on an interview before they feel safe, they

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:30

feel like you made them look great.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:32

They feel like it's a piece of content that they would want

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:34

to share with someone, you've made it really easy for them.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:36

All of these things are so important and not that hard to do.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:40

It's not that hard to make people feel special.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:42

Again, get out of your mind.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:44

Like all of the tech and overthinking the process and wanting some special form.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:50

All of that will come.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:51

Focus really instead on making that person feel like they are

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:54

the most special person to you.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:56

It is the most important thing.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:58

It is the biggest deal.

Katie Fawkes: 00:31:59

It's all of that.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:00

That goes a really, really long way.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:02

And you're right.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:02

Like that really is what the NPR shows of the world are fantastic at.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:07

Is that they make it feel like it is an experience, both for their

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:11

listeners as well as you can hear it in how they bring guests on.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:14

There's a level of professionalism and confidence that some

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:18

of it comes with time.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:20

And some of it is just faked.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:22

They just put it on and believe in themselves and get there.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:25

So whether it's guests or by yourself, just make yourself feel special,

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:29

make your guests feel special.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:31

Make your listeners and viewers feel special, even if there's only two

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:34

or three of them on, they showed up, make it feel like it's a huge party.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:37

So don't let those things get to you.

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:39

It'll all come, but it'll come when you double down and believe in yourself and

Katie Fawkes: 00:32:43

believe in the reason why you started.

Doc Rock: 00:32:45

There are so many things.

Doc Rock: 00:32:47

That doing it cautiously is actually more dangerous than believing

Doc Rock: 00:32:52

in the process and going at it.

Doc Rock: 00:32:53

We famously have a rock here in Hawaii.

Doc Rock: 00:32:56

Why me bay, that, you know, tourists love the climb up there and think

Doc Rock: 00:32:59

they're gonna jump off like Acapulco.

Doc Rock: 00:33:01

It's not that far.

Doc Rock: 00:33:02

I think it's like a 20 foot drop.

Doc Rock: 00:33:04

But yikes, the people that get hurt are the one that changed their mind at

Doc Rock: 00:33:08

the end, the ones that go up there and give them, as we say in Hawaii, we say,

Doc Rock: 00:33:11

give them the ones that go up there and give them jump off the rock, cheer.

Doc Rock: 00:33:15

Perfect.

Doc Rock: 00:33:16

Every time, the ones that heads their bets, belly flop back, flop

Doc Rock: 00:33:20

pain, screaming, somebody gotta go get them out of the water.

Doc Rock: 00:33:23

So it's kind of like that.

Doc Rock: 00:33:25

Podcasting is very much like that.

Doc Rock: 00:33:26

If you go into it, knowing that you got this, what you do, and there's

Doc Rock: 00:33:30

a lot of us here to help you.

Doc Rock: 00:33:31

I know a lot of people will remember this.

Doc Rock: 00:33:33

If you're a car person, you're a car person.

Doc Rock: 00:33:35

So the car people will remember this when you got your first bucket and

Doc Rock: 00:33:38

don't mean like real bucket, like you needed vice grips to roll down the

Doc Rock: 00:33:42

windows a little bit of tape to keep that side mirror just with that,

Doc Rock: 00:33:46

a joint adeptness that you have.

Doc Rock: 00:33:48

But to you, you might as well have been driving a benzo.

Doc Rock: 00:33:52

That was your whip.

Doc Rock: 00:33:53

I remember my first car was a 77 Pinto.

Doc Rock: 00:33:57

It was school bus yellow, and it was a Pinto.

Doc Rock: 00:34:00

If you ran into the back of a Pinto, they would explode.

Doc Rock: 00:34:03

But to me, I might as well have been driving a Lamborghini, man.

Doc Rock: 00:34:07

I would get out there and clean the mirrors and tires, like

Doc Rock: 00:34:10

had the aerial just right.

Doc Rock: 00:34:11

You know, put the little golf ball on the end so that you can find your

Doc Rock: 00:34:15

car, like all of the things, like I spent a lot of time babying that

Doc Rock: 00:34:19

car because to me it was everything.

Doc Rock: 00:34:21

It was all the grass cutting and all the summer jobs and all of that.

Doc Rock: 00:34:25

Right.

Doc Rock: 00:34:26

So treat your podcast like you did that first thing, whatever you were really

Doc Rock: 00:34:30

into, whether it was your first car or your first dating experience, whatever

Doc Rock: 00:34:35

it is, treat your podcast like that.

Doc Rock: 00:34:37

It will grow a lot, lot better.

Doc Rock: 00:34:38

It just does.

Doc Rock: 00:34:39

Family, that was all that I had for this particular episode.

Doc Rock: 00:34:43

Katie, you got any last parting words you like to hit the folks with?

Katie Fawkes: 00:34:46

You can do it, which I feel like is our ending for every

Katie Fawkes: 00:34:49

live stream and for the podcast and for everything that we've been saying.

Katie Fawkes: 00:34:54

I will just keep saying it over and over to all of you.

Katie Fawkes: 00:34:56

If you want to do it, you can do it.

Katie Fawkes: 00:34:58

There's lots of help.

Katie Fawkes: 00:34:59

There's lots of support and resources.

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:01

It's not like back in the day where you had to go to the library

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:04

and get a bunch of books and spend an insane amount of time.

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:06

You have a lot of people you can connect with.

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:08

You have videos, you can watch, you have tons of resources, you are able to do it.

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:12

It's up to you.

Doc Rock: 00:35:13

You know, it's very good you say that.

Doc Rock: 00:35:15

And for if you're just starting out, perfect.

Doc Rock: 00:35:17

Ride with us because then you can ride one way and we get lost and you get lost

Doc Rock: 00:35:23

and we find the magic palace or whatever.

Doc Rock: 00:35:26

Then you'll find the magic palace with us.

Doc Rock: 00:35:27

So ride with us.

Doc Rock: 00:35:29

If you're thinking about it, start your podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:35:31

Now I have the trailer already in the old aggregator, I have the first episode and

Doc Rock: 00:35:37

this episode will come out next Tuesday just in time for the next live recording.

Doc Rock: 00:35:40

So you have time just go ahead and get it together.

Doc Rock: 00:35:44

People come ride dirty with us.

Doc Rock: 00:35:46

It's okay.

Doc Rock: 00:35:47

Yep.

Doc Rock: 00:35:48

We will all roll in there.

Doc Rock: 00:35:49

Smelly spinach and the teeth together.

Doc Rock: 00:35:51

But somehow we are going to get there.

Doc Rock: 00:35:53

So I appreciate you guys.

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:55

High fiving.

Katie Fawkes: 00:35:55

We'll be high fiving, the whole way.

Doc Rock: 00:35:57

High fiving, the whole way.

Doc Rock: 00:35:58

I appreciate you guys for listening to this.

Doc Rock: 00:36:00

If you are listening to this at the gym in your car, ride in the

Doc Rock: 00:36:03

shower, in the bathroom, wherever your podcast listening happens.

Doc Rock: 00:36:06

I appreciate you for listening to this.

Doc Rock: 00:36:08

Thanks again.

Doc Rock: 00:36:08

If you enjoy this, please leave us review on your favorite podcast.

Doc Rock: 00:36:12

Aggregator.

Doc Rock: 00:36:13

Don't forget if you want to be part of the live experience.

Doc Rock: 00:36:16

The live experience happens every Tuesday at 12:00 PM.

Doc Rock: 00:36:20

Eastern that's 6:00 AM Hawaiian and come in, enjoy it.

Doc Rock: 00:36:25

While we hear live, the audience is going off.

Doc Rock: 00:36:28

We're gonna go 10 to them and answer some questions.

Doc Rock: 00:36:30

But you can also jump into our Facebook group, our Discord and our Discord, we'll

Doc Rock: 00:36:35

have a section for you to conversate with the rest of your podcasting brethren.

Doc Rock: 00:36:40

So I appreciate everyone for being here.

Doc Rock: 00:36:42

Katie, you make this so much easier than if I had explain this by myself and you

Doc Rock: 00:36:46

know, what's odd last week, I record my podcast right after, and then I do

Doc Rock: 00:36:50

my live stream and it's not the same.

Katie Fawkes: 00:36:54

Oh, I'll have to come as a guest.

Katie Fawkes: 00:36:55

You'll have to invite me on.

Doc Rock: 00:36:56

It's so much better when Katie is here.

Doc Rock: 00:36:58

So I appreciate you guys.

Doc Rock: 00:37:00

Thank everyone again.

Doc Rock: 00:37:01

And that my friend is another wrapped up session of The Flow.

Doc Rock: 00:37:05

Just a reminder.

Doc Rock: 00:37:05

If you haven't already, you can find us at flow dot Ecamm dot com.

Doc Rock: 00:37:09

If you have anything you want to ask us, or at episode, you'd like to see us

Doc Rock: 00:37:13

cover, you can email us at flow@ecamm.com.

Doc Rock: 00:37:23

And of course, if you're on a video version, scan this QR code

Doc Rock: 00:37:27

and it will get you started.

Doc Rock: 00:37:28

Thank you guys once again for listening to another episode of The Flow.

Doc Rock: 00:37:33

Thanks everyone.