The Flow: Episode 107 - Sponsorship Secrets with Justin Moore

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<v Music>

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<v Katie>Hey, Flowriders. Happy Tuesday. Welcome to another episode of The Flow.

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<v Katie>I am so excited to be your host today. If we haven't met yet, hi, I'm Katie.

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<v Katie>Doc is actually in Mexico this week at an event with one of our incredible Ecamm fan members.

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<v Katie>So just me today, but I brought a really special guest with me.

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<v Katie>This episode, we are going to be talking entirely about sponsorships,

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<v Katie>which I know is a huge topic and one that's really important to many of you

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<v Katie>out here in the creator and in the podcasting space.

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<v Katie>So I'm really delighted to have Justin Moore with me here today.

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<v Katie>If you don't know Justin yet, hopefully you will be so incredibly excited to

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<v Katie>learn more about him on the other side of this episode. He is a sponsorship coach.

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<v Katie>He is the author of this incredible book, Sponsor Magnet, and the founder of

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<v Katie>Creator wizard, a school and community that teaches creators how to find and

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<v Katie>negotiate their dream brand deals.

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<v Katie>Along with his wife, April, Justin has been a full-time creator since 2014 and

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<v Katie>has personally made over $5 million working with brands.

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<v Katie>He also ran an influencer marketing agency for seven years and has an incredible

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<v Katie>insider perspective on how big brands choose who to work with and why they pass on others.

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<v Katie>So without further ado, welcome to the show, Justin.

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<v Justin>Let's go we're gonna have so much fun today katie i don't think anyone if you're

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<v Justin>listening if you're watching you have no idea what's in store i'm excited for this

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<v Katie>We let justin uh keep all of his sound effects

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<v Katie>today and i'm so excited for it i am here for it well i'm thrilled i'm so thrilled

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<v Katie>that you're here and it was so great getting to connect with you because i feel

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<v Katie>like we've been in all the same spaces and places and now that we're now that

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<v Katie>we're friends you're going to be sick of hanging out with us in the camp fam.

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<v Justin>100%.

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<v Katie>Well, I wanted to, I know I just gave an intro, but I wanted to talk a little

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<v Katie>bit about your personal journey before we kind of kick into some of the details

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<v Katie>about sponsorships, because I think it's such a big space.

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<v Katie>It's such an awesome space, but it's really difficult for people to figure out

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<v Katie>exactly how to get started.

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<v Katie>So before we jump into all the questions, how did you end up in this space?

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<v Katie>How did you navigate from where you were to where you are now?

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<v Justin>Yeah. I mean, I think I could give you the whole origin story of like,

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<v Justin>you know, how my wife and I first started in 2009 on YouTube.

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<v Justin>My wife started her first channel. But what I think is actually more interesting

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<v Justin>is how I got into sponsorships in particular, because as you mentioned,

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<v Justin>we've been creators for very long, doing lots of deals. But

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<v Justin>One of the reasons I decided to start educating creators about sponsorship strategy

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<v Justin>is that so, you know, I ran, uh, also I ran an influencer agency for about seven

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<v Justin>years and this kind of afforded me a very different perspective.

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<v Justin>You know, I've been a creator in the trenches for many years doing hundreds

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<v Justin>of deals, but now being kind of behind the scenes where I was in the boardrooms,

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<v Justin>literally with these big brands and advertisers.

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<v Justin>And they're saying, Hey, April and Justin, we don't want to just pay you five take 5k, 10k.

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<v Justin>We want to spend a million dollars across 200 people.

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<v Justin>Who should we work with? What platform should we be on? What's the strategy?

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<v Justin>And I'm over here being like, you don't know? You were like looking to me for this?

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<v Justin>And so it was this trial by fire when I started the agency of realizing,

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<v Justin>especially in 2015 when I started it, that a lot of brands don't have it figured out yet.

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<v Justin>They don't understand a lot of these platforms. They don't understand how to

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<v Justin>insert themselves into the cultural narrative if there's some sort of,

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<v Justin>you know, trend or trending sound or something in a way that is,

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<v Justin>you know, the, you know, the audience doesn't cringe, you know, if they try to.

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<v Justin>And so that was one reason. The second reason, honestly, Katie,

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<v Justin>was that when I would open up TikTok or when I would look on Twitter or X or

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<v Justin>something, the only time that I saw people talking about working with brands

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<v Justin>was when they were talking crap.

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<v Justin>Basically, they were like, this brand, And, you know, it's trying to screw me.

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<v Justin>They're trying to lowball me. They're trying to just offer me free stuff instead of paying me.

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<v Justin>Like, you know, basically telling their audience, go like flood their customer

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<v Justin>service lines and like demand that they like, you know, do right by me.

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<v Justin>And, you know, like I imagine if you're an up and coming creator and that's all you see. Yeah.

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<v Justin>That is going to be your perspective on brand partnerships that,

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<v Justin>wow, like I have to go into the octagon with these brands and like with this

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<v Justin>suit of armor. because they're trying to screw me.

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<v Justin>And this was like a complete opposite experience seeing these stories from the

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<v Justin>hundreds of deals that I've done over the years and thousands through the agency that I ran.

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<v Justin>Like literally I can count on like one hand the number of deals that like truly went south.

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<v Justin>And so I just decided like, no one is telling the other side of it.

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<v Justin>No one is telling that like brand partnerships can be awesome if you also are

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<v Justin>professional, if you're communicative, if you understand this is a human on

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<v Justin>the other side of this email when you're working with the brand.

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<v Justin>And so that really is what the whole ethos of my book sponsor magnet,

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<v Justin>as well as everything that I teach at CreatorWizard.

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<v Katie>Yeah, I love it. And I think it's such an important topic because it does feel

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<v Katie>so, it's probably not the right word, but like taboo in some cases.

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<v Katie>Like I feel like many creators who are going through this process,

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<v Katie>like what they really want to ask is like, you know, how much do I charge?

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<v Katie>How much are you getting paid? Like, you know, how big or important is my platform?

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<v Katie>Like, it feels big and important to me, but I'm looking at, you know,

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<v Katie>I don't know, maybe I only have 5,000 subscribers or 10,000 subscribers. Like...

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<v Katie>It's one of those things that not a lot of people are talking about.

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<v Katie>And if they are talking about it, it feels like it's veiled and kind of hidden

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<v Katie>behind, you know, behind everything else.

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<v Katie>And you don't really know, like, what the details are of it.

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<v Katie>So I'm just thrilled that you're, like, out here having these conversations,

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<v Katie>because I do think they're really important.

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<v Katie>And, like, I don't think that there's a single person out there who is,

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<v Katie>like, in this space that doesn't want to get paid for their work in some way or another, right?

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<v Katie>Like, I mean, I do a just for fun podcast, literally a just for fun podcast.

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<v Katie>But if someone was to come to me and say like, hey, Katie, like,

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<v Katie>you know, I would love to, you know, sponsor an episode.

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<v Katie>And it was like a really cool product I believed in.

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<v Katie>There's no way that I would be like, no, I'm like, this is just for fun.

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<v Katie>I don't want to get any money for this. So I think it's a really good space.

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<v Katie>It's a really important topic.

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<v Katie>And I think it's super important for everyone to know that it's okay to have

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<v Katie>these conversations and to learn this information so that you're ready when

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<v Katie>these kinds of things, opportunities arise.

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<v Justin>Yeah. You know, the real tricky part, I think, about sponsorships in general

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<v Justin>is that, yes, 100% agree that like being able to learn from others and seeing

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<v Justin>how other people are navigating it is a big part of it.

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<v Justin>However, there's a trap there, which is that a lot of people do this where,

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<v Justin>you know, brand comes inbound and their first inclination is like,

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<v Justin>Like, let me go ask my friend who worked with them how much they charged or how they handled it.

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<v Justin>Or like, what do you think I should charge? Even if they haven't worked with

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<v Justin>it, what do you think I should charge?

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<v Justin>And one of the biggest mistakes that I think I've seen over the last five years

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<v Justin>educating people is they rely on just bad advice from other creators.

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<v Justin>And they're basically comparing themselves to that person's platforms,

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<v Justin>that person's business, when, in fact, their business is completely different.

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<v Justin>In fact, I have an anecdote. One of my longest-running coaching clients,

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<v Justin>his name is Paul Jamison. He has a podcast called The Green Industry Podcast.

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<v Justin>And he told me this story that like when he first started out,

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<v Justin>the way he figured his rates was he had a friend who was much larger than him.

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<v Justin>And he had basically 5% of his audience. And so he figured, he asked his friend,

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<v Justin>how much are you charging?

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<v Justin>And so he literally said, okay, well, I'm just going to take 5% of what he's

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<v Justin>charging because I have 5% of the audience. So I guess that seems right.

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<v Justin>But honestly, this is not to make fun.

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<v Justin>When you have no benchmark or reference point of what you're supposed to do, why not?

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<v Justin>That's as good a method as any.

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<v Justin>And so again, one of the reasons I wrote the book is to try to distill all the

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<v Justin>mistakes that we've made over the last 15 years to try to help people avoid some of those.

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<v Katie>Yeah. So I guess my first question then based on this is...

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<v Katie>How do you get started with figuring out some of these details?

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<v Katie>So, I mean, other than grabbing a copy of the book, which I absolutely think

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<v Katie>that everyone should get and make sure that you're following Justin,

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<v Katie>sign up for his emails and connect with him.

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<v Katie>But if you are, if you're, you know, cause let's say you're like a smaller creator,

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<v Katie>you know, maybe you're like upwards of, you know, 5,000 subs or followers or,

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<v Katie>or customers or audience size.

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<v Katie>How do you figure out like what, how to get started, I guess,

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<v Katie>in the sponsorship space as far as what is reasonable to charge and what is

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<v Katie>the value of your audience and what kinds of brands or, um, or partners should you be looking for?

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<v Justin>Yeah. So, I mean, I think the first myth we need to dispel is that you have

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<v Justin>to wait for brands to reach out to you.

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<v Justin>I think there's a lot of people who think that like, if I build it, they will come.

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<v Justin>Yeah. Like I just need to get to 5,000 subs or 10,000 subscribers or 10,000,

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<v Justin>you know, 1,000 average listens on my podcast or downloads or whatever.

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<v Justin>Because maybe one brand told you that one time and you were like,

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<v Justin>well, I guess that's what every brand thinks.

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<v Justin>So I'll just wait until I get there and then, you know, they'll start reaching out.

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<v Justin>And there's no gatekeeper. There's no person that you need to wait to put their

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<v Justin>hand on your shoulder to be like, you're now allowed to reach out to a brand.

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<v Justin>Because I think that's what a lot of people are waiting for.

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<v Justin>Yeah, this is your permission. No, but for real, like there's a lot of people

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<v Justin>who have said this to me that like, I just, I don't know. I was waiting.

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<v Justin>A lot of people have said, I'm just going to wait until I get on the radar of

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<v Justin>a manager, an agent or a representative that will then advocate on my behalf.

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<v Justin>So that's my goal is like to get on the radar of someone else who handles the

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<v Justin>business stuff. And we could go down that rabbit hole later.

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<v Justin>But like there's a lot of these limiting beliefs that I think people have about

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<v Justin>when they're allowed to do this.

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<v Justin>And so the first advice is like, no, now, now is the right time.

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<v Justin>It doesn't matter where you're at.

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<v Justin>What you pitch has to change though, depending on where you're at in your journey.

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<v Justin>And so I think we should start here to talk about this because I think this

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<v Justin>is a question I get is like, how many followers, how many subs do I need to get?

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<v Justin>Um, and so I, one of the things I talk about in the book is something called

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<v Justin>the sponsorship continuum.

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<v Justin>So let's say that you're at the very outset of your journey and you're getting,

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<v Justin>you know, let's say hundreds of views on average for your YouTube videos,

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<v Justin>your podcast, whatever.

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<v Justin>If you were to reach out to a brand, large brand, let's say one of your dream

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<v Justin>brands and say, Hey, let me talk about you on my podcast, or let me talk about

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<v Justin>you on YouTube, they're going to take one look at your platform and be like,

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<v Justin>it's not really going to move the needle for us. Let's just be real here, right?

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<v Justin>Because they're operating in the, they may maybe be spending tens of millions

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<v Justin>of dollars on marketing campaigns each year.

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<v Justin>And so to spend $1,000, $2,000 with you is a rounding error.

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<v Justin>And honestly, it's a rounding error in terms of the KPIs that they're held to

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<v Justin>internally in terms of how they need to measure.

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<v Justin>And so it's just, it's too small. And so, however...

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<v Justin>How about we switch up this pitch a little bit? You say, okay,

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<v Justin>let me actually go and do an audit of this brand's social strategy or their

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<v Justin>presence on the internet.

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<v Justin>Do they have a blog? Do they have a newsletter? Do they have a podcast for their brand?

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<v Justin>Do they have a TikTok? Do they have a YouTube? Is all they're posting on their

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<v Justin>YouTube, their 30-second TV ads?

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<v Justin>Well, I know as a YouTuber, that's not going to work, right?

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<v Justin>And so are they posting on the internet?

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<v Justin>Are they not posting frequently enough? Is the quality not good,

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<v Justin>right? So there's all these filtering criteria that you can come to them and

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<v Justin>say, look, love your brand, but I think you could be telling your brand story

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<v Justin>in a much more compelling way.

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<v Justin>I would actually love to create some content for you to use on autopilot.

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<v Justin>I'll create five to 10 videos a month. I'll launch the podcast for you.

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<v Justin>I'll interview people on your marketing team. I'll interview my friends in the industry.

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<v Justin>It's a turnkey offer, $7,500 a month or whatever.

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<v Justin>And by the way, go take a look at my podcast because that serves as my portfolio.

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<v Katie>Yeah.

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<v Justin>So this is a very different thing of what you're pitching them in the beginning

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<v Justin>when you're starting out. So now let's say you grow a little bit.

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<v Justin>Okay. You're getting thousands of downloads or thousands of views. Okay.

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<v Justin>Yeah. What you pitch is probably going to be a combination. Now you're going

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<v Justin>to say, Hey, I'm going to create some content for you.

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<v Justin>Maybe I'll do some consulting for you. And yeah, maybe syndicating or amplifying

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<v Justin>this content on my platform starts becoming kind of meaningful.

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<v Justin>Then you get to the very end of this sponsorship continuum. You're crushing it, right?

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<v Justin>You're getting tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands Yeah,

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<v Justin>the thrust of what you pitch them is let me talk about you natively on my platform.

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<v Justin>So I think it's very helpful to orient you of like where you're at and who you should pitch and what.

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<v Katie>Yeah, and I think what's super important in there and that I personally see all the time is that

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<v Katie>people will send, you know, whether it's DMs or emails or, you know,

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<v Katie>they will connect and reach out specifically to Ecamm.

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<v Katie>And I'm typically the person that sees almost all of them and they haven't done any of that research.

00:13:25.410 --> 00:13:30.670

<v Katie>And so like, if it's going to be a blind ask and I like, and the brand does

00:13:30.670 --> 00:13:35.050

<v Katie>not know who you are, you're kind of like coming, coming at them out of nowhere,

00:13:35.310 --> 00:13:39.170

<v Katie>then yeah, I think like having that level of kind of research and understanding

00:13:39.170 --> 00:13:43.170

<v Katie>where in that continuum you are is hugely important because no one is going

00:13:43.170 --> 00:13:48.290

<v Katie>to pay any attention if you've come out of nowhere and you're like, I'm kind of a big deal.

00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:51.610

<v Katie>I want to, you know, please give me this amount of money for me to talk about

00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:53.950

<v Katie>you on, like, on my platform.

00:13:54.110 --> 00:13:56.990

<v Katie>You know, here's my link. If they even give that,

00:13:57.170 --> 00:14:00.310

<v Katie>like, the amount you would, you would laugh, Justin wouldn't laugh because he

00:14:00.310 --> 00:14:03.590

<v Katie>probably sees this all the time, but just, but like, you would be,

00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:09.990

<v Katie>you would laugh slash be horrified at the amount of people that are just failing at this.

00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:13.790

<v Katie>So like when you do it right, it's so noticeable.

00:14:14.130 --> 00:14:19.270

<v Katie>Like the, you know, when people reach out correctly to a brand and understand

00:14:19.270 --> 00:14:22.810

<v Katie>the brand that they're going after, after and see the vision and understand

00:14:22.810 --> 00:14:29.050

<v Katie>their own platform and what they want to get, you're already ahead of 95% of the people out there.

00:14:29.050 --> 00:14:36.070

<v Katie>So it does really make a difference to pause for a second and really think about

00:14:36.070 --> 00:14:43.090

<v Katie>your goals, what you think the brand might need or want, where that brand is

00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:44.010

<v Katie>in that particular place.

00:14:44.070 --> 00:14:47.950

<v Katie>All of this makes a really big difference in that first impression because I

00:14:47.950 --> 00:14:53.930

<v Katie>kid you not, probably hundreds of them over the years where I'm like,

00:14:54.030 --> 00:14:55.850

<v Katie>do you not know who we are as a company?

00:14:55.850 --> 00:15:01.070

<v Katie>They just come in with this very strange, I can't even call it a pitch.

00:15:01.270 --> 00:15:03.350

<v Katie>So it's, there's so much opportunity.

00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:05.890

<v Katie>Like if I'm seeing that, I can guarantee you that.

00:15:05.910 --> 00:15:07.070

<v Justin>You know, larger brands,

00:15:07.110 --> 00:15:08.790

<v Katie>They're seeing all kinds of different things.

00:15:10.015 --> 00:15:13.555

<v Justin>This is a really, really important insight, Katie. And as someone who is on

00:15:13.555 --> 00:15:18.155

<v Justin>the brand side and is on the receiving end of a lot of these messages,

00:15:19.335 --> 00:15:22.715

<v Justin>this is the form a lot of this outreach takes is it's a very kind of me,

00:15:22.815 --> 00:15:25.895

<v Justin>me, me focused approach. It's like, I have this podcast.

00:15:26.055 --> 00:15:28.855

<v Justin>I get this many downloads. Here's my demographics.

00:15:29.395 --> 00:15:33.575

<v Justin>Here's what I would love you to do. Sponsor my show for the following reasons.

00:15:33.755 --> 00:15:35.135

<v Justin>Here how much it's going to cost you.

00:15:35.355 --> 00:15:38.955

<v Justin>Are you interested, yes or no? And you're over here sitting and thinking,

00:15:38.955 --> 00:15:40.295

<v Justin>I don't know who this person is.

00:15:40.455 --> 00:15:45.495

<v Justin>I don't have any conception of like how I could collaborate with this person.

00:15:46.395 --> 00:15:50.975

<v Justin>Also, I don't have random piles of money lying around to just pay people who reach out.

00:15:51.615 --> 00:15:56.275

<v Justin>And so it might be interesting at this point in the conversation,

00:15:56.275 --> 00:16:00.275

<v Justin>maybe to just do kind of a thought exercise of like, let's take your Just for

00:16:00.275 --> 00:16:06.335

<v Justin>Fun podcast and let's brainstorm a brand of someone that you say,

00:16:06.495 --> 00:16:09.275

<v Justin>man, that would be so cool if they sponsored my podcast.

00:16:09.275 --> 00:16:12.095

<v Justin>And I'm going to share my screen and we're going to kind of go through,

00:16:12.175 --> 00:16:14.715

<v Justin>I'm going to go through the process of something that I call the rope pitching

00:16:14.715 --> 00:16:18.015

<v Justin>method of actually how we design this pitch to something that would be compelling.

00:16:18.215 --> 00:16:22.135

<v Katie>Oh my gosh. All right. All right. It's a rainy day. So no one judged me on my

00:16:22.135 --> 00:16:23.955

<v Katie>inability to brainstorm quickly. It's okay.

00:16:24.215 --> 00:16:26.295

<v Justin>It's okay. Well, first of all, give me the, give me the pitch.

00:16:26.495 --> 00:16:29.035

<v Justin>What's the podcast? Like what's the thrust of the podcast? Like what do you

00:16:29.035 --> 00:16:30.535

<v Justin>kind of talk about? Give me a bit of context.

00:16:30.715 --> 00:16:35.315

<v Katie>You've got it. So it's called the VHS club podcast, And we review movies you've

00:16:35.315 --> 00:16:39.795

<v Katie>likely already seen from the 80s, 90s, and today, so early 2000s.

00:16:40.535 --> 00:16:45.675

<v Katie>And it's really entirely tied in nostalgia. And it's all about just kind of

00:16:45.675 --> 00:16:52.635

<v Katie>reconnecting with those movies that made up our childhood and our adolescence.

00:16:54.295 --> 00:17:00.295

<v Justin>Give me give me a bit of context on do you have any sort of psychographic intuition

00:17:00.295 --> 00:17:04.675

<v Justin>maybe you've either done this surveys to your audience or do you have a intuition

00:17:04.675 --> 00:17:08.855

<v Justin>on like the types of people who are watching beyond the demographics i'm saying

00:17:08.855 --> 00:17:11.875

<v Justin>like who are the types of people that are watching this show i

00:17:11.875 --> 00:17:18.255

<v Katie>Haven't um again it's been sort of just this play space for me so i I haven't done any of that work.

00:17:18.415 --> 00:17:24.835

<v Katie>I mean, from like a gut feeling standpoint, which this is not what all of you

00:17:24.835 --> 00:17:27.795

<v Katie>should be doing, but from a gut feeling standpoint,

00:17:28.375 --> 00:17:32.515

<v Katie>it's, you know, it's people that are in the same, generally speaking,

00:17:32.655 --> 00:17:36.035

<v Katie>within the same like age group as I am.

00:17:36.135 --> 00:17:41.435

<v Katie>So it's, you know, we're looking at like millennials and Gen X and probably

00:17:41.435 --> 00:17:46.535

<v Katie>millennials and Gen X. they are like, again, it's all, it's all caught up in

00:17:46.535 --> 00:17:47.675

<v Katie>kind of this level of nostalgia.

00:17:47.815 --> 00:17:51.855

<v Katie>And the, you know, the question that we're constantly asking people and the

00:17:51.855 --> 00:17:56.315

<v Katie>connection point is in this, what, you know, what is your favorite movie and why?

00:17:56.515 --> 00:18:02.115

<v Katie>And the answers to that really kind of define the show and are always sort of surprising.

00:18:03.128 --> 00:18:06.208

<v Katie>Um, I don't think that fully answers your question, but that's a little bit more.

00:18:06.408 --> 00:18:09.188

<v Justin>No, I mean, I mean, I think this is like a really important insight here is

00:18:09.188 --> 00:18:11.948

<v Justin>realizing you've got to do this work first is realizing like,

00:18:11.968 --> 00:18:14.508

<v Justin>okay, I actually need to be maybe surveying my audience.

00:18:14.688 --> 00:18:18.088

<v Justin>Maybe I put a link in the show notes and I do some pre-rolls in my upcoming

00:18:18.088 --> 00:18:21.408

<v Justin>episodes, which I'm basically saying like, Hey, I want to learn more about y'all,

00:18:21.528 --> 00:18:25.168

<v Justin>not only to serve you from an episode content strategy perspective,

00:18:25.168 --> 00:18:28.668

<v Justin>but also, you know, if I do want to work with sponsors, um,

00:18:29.188 --> 00:18:33.208

<v Justin>this, these insights are going to be super useful in having a conversation with

00:18:33.208 --> 00:18:36.188

<v Justin>a sponsor when they ask this question of like, tell me more about who's in your

00:18:36.188 --> 00:18:40.168

<v Justin>audience, understanding the composition, because again, your audience represents

00:18:40.168 --> 00:18:42.328

<v Justin>a pool of prospective customers for their brand.

00:18:42.428 --> 00:18:44.988

<v Justin>They don't really care about sponsoring you, Katie, or your podcast.

00:18:45.248 --> 00:18:47.968

<v Justin>They really don't care about your podcast at all. They care about finding new

00:18:47.968 --> 00:18:50.728

<v Justin>customers, right? That's kind of table stakes. If you'd be like,

00:18:50.768 --> 00:18:51.708

<v Justin>I love your brand, right?

00:18:52.208 --> 00:18:55.088

<v Justin>It's kind of a tough pill to swallow for some people, but this is the reality

00:18:55.088 --> 00:18:58.168

<v Justin>is this is the whole reason they want to potentially do influencer marketing

00:18:58.168 --> 00:19:00.348

<v Justin>is to access new prospective customers, right?

00:19:00.348 --> 00:19:04.648

<v Justin>Um, and so one thing that I'm thinking of is like from the nostalgia,

00:19:04.648 --> 00:19:10.908

<v Justin>uh, angle, um, is, um, I don't know if you heard about this.

00:19:10.968 --> 00:19:13.048

<v Justin>You probably did. So have you heard of the mod retro?

00:19:13.588 --> 00:19:14.828

<v Katie>No, I haven't.

00:19:15.768 --> 00:19:16.148

<v Justin>Okay.

00:19:16.468 --> 00:19:19.248

<v Katie>So, um, but now I'm intrigued.

00:19:20.128 --> 00:19:23.228

<v Justin>Yeah. Okay. So, um, I'm going to share my screen here and I'm going to,

00:19:23.288 --> 00:19:26.288

<v Justin>I'm going to walk you through my thought process here. So there's this thing

00:19:26.288 --> 00:19:30.208

<v Justin>called the, the mod retro, which is, uh, I don't know if you know who Palmer

00:19:30.208 --> 00:19:34.228

<v Justin>or Lucky is, but he has created this thing where you can,

00:19:34.408 --> 00:19:38.248

<v Katie>It's basically, I didn't know the name, but I now immediately am seeing.

00:19:38.568 --> 00:19:41.468

<v Katie>Yeah. So I am aware of this, but I did not know the name of it. Awesome.

00:19:41.548 --> 00:19:47.028

<v Justin>Yeah. So, uh, this is, this is my first idea of when I think about for your

00:19:47.028 --> 00:19:51.108

<v Justin>podcast, it's like, Hey, this is actually kind of a cool tie-in of like people

00:19:51.108 --> 00:19:53.368

<v Justin>who are into, you know, nostalgia,

00:19:53.988 --> 00:19:57.468

<v Justin>old movies, et cetera, would also potentially be in the same category that would

00:19:57.468 --> 00:20:01.208

<v Justin>be down to get a mod retro. Does this, does this jive with you?

00:20:01.308 --> 00:20:02.048

<v Katie>Yeah, totally.

00:20:03.228 --> 00:20:06.828

<v Justin>Okay. So, um, let's say that we want to pitch mod retro.

00:20:06.948 --> 00:20:10.108

<v Justin>And so the bad version of this is what it's, Hey, I'm going to reach out.

00:20:10.208 --> 00:20:12.808

<v Justin>Hey, you know, I've got this podcast.

00:20:13.268 --> 00:20:16.388

<v Justin>You know, we've got a bunch of people who love retro stuff. Would love to talk

00:20:16.388 --> 00:20:18.168

<v Justin>about your, you know, your mod retro.

00:20:18.688 --> 00:20:21.728

<v Justin>Uh, are you free on Thursday at 10 AM to talk about that? Or like,

00:20:21.808 --> 00:20:23.588

<v Justin>I would love to figure out a way to collaborate with this. That's the,

00:20:23.648 --> 00:20:25.008

<v Justin>that's the bad version of this pitch. Right.

00:20:25.528 --> 00:20:32.888

<v Justin>And so what I want to do is i'm gonna i'm gonna do a bit of research uh on what

00:20:32.888 --> 00:20:37.508

<v Justin>it seems like the brand cares about right now so the very first thing that i

00:20:37.508 --> 00:20:43.168

<v Justin>see is their first edition has sold out what do i want to know when is the second edition coming out

00:20:44.035 --> 00:20:46.855

<v Justin>that's the first thing that i'm thinking about right so okay it's to say that

00:20:46.855 --> 00:20:50.255

<v Justin>you can buy it at gamestop i'm going to click on this link um okay

00:20:50.255 --> 00:20:53.155

<v Justin>so you can okay so you can add it to cart here so it

00:20:53.155 --> 00:20:56.735

<v Justin>seems like there's a gamestop exclusive version of it so this is interesting

00:20:56.735 --> 00:21:01.715

<v Justin>to me i'm just all like i'm logging on this all the way right yeah um so they've

00:21:01.715 --> 00:21:06.735

<v Justin>got different colors they have a gamestop exclusive edition uh let's look at

00:21:06.735 --> 00:21:11.115

<v Justin>their instagram and their youtube pages I'm just kind of curious here what they're,

00:21:11.115 --> 00:21:14.535

<v Justin>what they're talking about. So this was three days to go.

00:21:15.115 --> 00:21:17.695

<v Justin>They're just doing some interesting things here.

00:21:19.395 --> 00:21:24.895

<v Justin>Doing some unboxing. So, so it looks like they're doing a collab posts on Instagram

00:21:24.895 --> 00:21:28.855

<v Justin>with some people, which is kind of interesting. So that that's maybe interesting

00:21:28.855 --> 00:21:32.055

<v Justin>too, so that they value that potentially like content that they could,

00:21:32.175 --> 00:21:33.895

<v Justin>you know, collaborate with other people.

00:21:34.095 --> 00:21:37.595

<v Justin>It seems like the GameStop thing is like a thing that they're talking about.

00:21:37.595 --> 00:21:41.835

<v Justin>Okay, so let's just stop here. We could keep going down the research rabbit hole.

00:21:42.095 --> 00:21:47.135

<v Justin>But like, this clearly seems the GameStop exclusive version of the Mod Retro

00:21:47.135 --> 00:21:52.355

<v Justin>seems to be like an important thing for Mod Retro, right?

00:21:53.095 --> 00:21:58.755

<v Justin>And so we're going to design a pitch, which is using something that I call the Rope Method.

00:21:59.075 --> 00:22:02.415

<v Justin>So R stands for relevant to a campaign

00:22:02.415 --> 00:22:04.375

<v Justin>that the brand is either currently running or has run in the past.

00:22:04.515 --> 00:22:07.475

<v Justin>So in this situation, it's the GameStop exclusive version, right? Yep.

00:22:08.195 --> 00:22:12.835

<v Justin>O stands for organic, meaning that you can tie your pitch back to organic work

00:22:12.835 --> 00:22:17.295

<v Justin>that you've already published that illustrates that your audience has an affinity

00:22:17.295 --> 00:22:19.335

<v Justin>for their brand or their product.

00:22:19.475 --> 00:22:22.455

<v Justin>And so what this means in your situation, Katie, is that you're basically going

00:22:22.455 --> 00:22:29.635

<v Justin>to be linking them an episode of your podcast where you talked about not just, you know,

00:22:29.835 --> 00:22:36.095

<v Justin>nostalgia movies, but also like, hey, we're doing a fun episode about video games today.

00:22:36.415 --> 00:22:36.675

<v Katie>Yeah.

00:22:37.095 --> 00:22:41.435

<v Justin>Right? And by the way, if you don't have an episode that you can use in your

00:22:41.435 --> 00:22:44.815

<v Justin>pitch, you make one before you pitch them.

00:22:46.187 --> 00:22:49.407

<v Justin>So a lot of people think like, oh, but man, this requires me to be a bit more

00:22:49.407 --> 00:22:52.807

<v Justin>intentional about my content strategy. Yes, that's the point, right?

00:22:53.007 --> 00:22:56.107

<v Justin>Right. And so you're still serving your listenership, of course,

00:22:56.267 --> 00:23:00.727

<v Justin>but you know that it's going to serve this double purpose of pitching Mod Retro in a couple of weeks.

00:23:01.347 --> 00:23:06.767

<v Justin>So that's O. P stands for proof. So you can show how you've helped other brands achieve results.

00:23:07.047 --> 00:23:11.347

<v Justin>And E stands for easy to execute when the brand says they're interested.

00:23:11.487 --> 00:23:17.127

<v Justin>So the form that this pitch takes is sentence one. Hey, I saw that Mod Retro

00:23:17.127 --> 00:23:19.707

<v Justin>launched this GameStop exclusive edition.

00:23:20.247 --> 00:23:27.047

<v Justin>That is absolutely amazing. I'm curious, are you planning additional campaigns

00:23:27.047 --> 00:23:28.247

<v Justin>to spread the word about this?

00:23:28.327 --> 00:23:32.747

<v Justin>Maybe when the second edition comes out of this, are you going to do a second

00:23:32.747 --> 00:23:35.107

<v Justin>edition with GameStop? That's super cool.

00:23:35.667 --> 00:23:42.727

<v Justin>And then you basically say, I also often talk to my audience about nostalgia-based

00:23:42.727 --> 00:23:45.547

<v Justin>video games, and then you link the episode that you made, right?

00:23:45.767 --> 00:23:49.927

<v Justin>I would love to help you spread the word when the second edition drops.

00:23:51.067 --> 00:23:55.207

<v Justin>Here's what I'm proposing. I would love to do five pre-roll ads.

00:23:55.207 --> 00:23:59.887

<v Justin>I can do a back catalog dynamic ad insertion over my entire catalog of my podcast.

00:24:00.507 --> 00:24:06.007

<v Justin>I will create a audiogram of this, especially if it's a video-based podcast.

00:24:06.867 --> 00:24:11.487

<v Justin>I will do an audiogram and let you use it for paid advertising for 60 days.

00:24:12.067 --> 00:24:15.087

<v Justin>Happy to share results of how I've worked with XYZ brand, you know,

00:24:15.247 --> 00:24:18.627

<v Justin>achieved similar results. Are you free on Thursday at 10 a.m. to talk about this?

00:24:19.327 --> 00:24:24.487

<v Justin>That is the pitch. So you see how different that is than the bad pitch we talked about earlier? Yeah.

00:24:25.207 --> 00:24:30.167

<v Katie>Yeah. I mean, it's good for so many different reasons.

00:24:31.687 --> 00:24:39.727

<v Katie>It shows so much kind of intention and understanding not only about you,

00:24:39.747 --> 00:24:41.707

<v Katie>but also about the brand.

00:24:41.947 --> 00:24:45.187

<v Katie>So I know that if I received a pitch like that,

00:24:45.327 --> 00:24:49.687

<v Katie>it would at least have me pausing and being like, oh, okay, this person knows

00:24:49.687 --> 00:24:53.207

<v Katie>enough about our company that they're asking these kinds of questions and they

00:24:53.207 --> 00:24:58.347

<v Katie>see how their content can fit in, which means that it's going to be pretty easy and low lift for me.

00:24:58.547 --> 00:25:02.107

<v Katie>It's already in line with what I'm probably already working on as a marketing plan.

00:25:02.247 --> 00:25:06.647

<v Katie>So then it answers that question that we briefly talked about earlier,

00:25:06.827 --> 00:25:13.447

<v Katie>which is like most brands and businesses don't have the budget sitting around.

00:25:13.827 --> 00:25:17.827

<v Katie>That question or that comment always drives me a little bit crazy when I'm talking

00:25:17.827 --> 00:25:22.467

<v Katie>with people and I get on a call and we're talking through like a potential idea

00:25:22.467 --> 00:25:28.307

<v Katie>that came to me so so obviously i did not plan for it and then they say what's your budget for this,

00:25:28.885 --> 00:25:34.085

<v Katie>I don't have a budget for this. You, you came to me with this idea and I've

00:25:34.085 --> 00:25:37.245

<v Katie>already built out my plan for the year and have like budget assigned.

00:25:37.445 --> 00:25:39.205

<v Katie>Like, can I move money around?

00:25:39.745 --> 00:25:42.925

<v Katie>Yeah, absolutely. Like if it makes it, but I don't, there's not like,

00:25:43.105 --> 00:25:45.665

<v Katie>as you said, a, a bucket of money that's sitting to the side.

00:25:45.785 --> 00:25:51.225

<v Katie>That's like, this is my like influencer budget for when people email me with great ideas.

00:25:51.385 --> 00:25:55.485

<v Katie>Maybe I should have a budget line item like that, I guess. But, um, but no.

00:25:55.585 --> 00:26:00.585

<v Justin>You You shouldn't. You want to know why? You want to know why you shouldn't? Because it is the

00:26:01.065 --> 00:26:06.645

<v Justin>creator's job to do the research and understand what you've already allocated

00:26:06.645 --> 00:26:11.345

<v Justin>the budget for so that like what you said is your only decision becomes,

00:26:11.345 --> 00:26:13.125

<v Justin>I've already got this budget.

00:26:13.545 --> 00:26:16.825

<v Justin>Now I just need to decide whether I should allocate some of this existing budget

00:26:16.825 --> 00:26:19.225

<v Justin>to them because it's a positioning exercise. You're saying, hey,

00:26:19.365 --> 00:26:24.225

<v Justin>if you sponsor me, I will help you move the needle on this initiative you've already budgeted for.

00:26:24.445 --> 00:26:28.165

<v Justin>It's so much easier to get allocated those dollars than the slush fund budget.

00:26:28.325 --> 00:26:33.765

<v Katie>Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're singing my song. I love it.

00:26:34.065 --> 00:26:37.285

<v Katie>Everyone take notes so that you know how to pitch e-cam going forward.

00:26:38.105 --> 00:26:42.405

<v Katie>All right, there's some great questions coming through and I want to make sure I don't miss any of them.

00:26:42.565 --> 00:26:48.805

<v Katie>So My Crafty Adventures asks, how do I change from an affiliate offer to a brand

00:26:48.805 --> 00:26:52.945

<v Katie>offer? Which I know is a huge question from a lot of different people.

00:26:53.165 --> 00:26:56.825

<v Katie>So potentially this person is doing really well in kind of the affiliate space

00:26:56.825 --> 00:26:59.705

<v Katie>and they're making some level of money there, but would like to be,

00:26:59.705 --> 00:27:03.425

<v Katie>you know, earning more or have a deeper relationship or partnership with a brand.

00:27:03.605 --> 00:27:06.765

<v Katie>How do they ask to go beyond affiliate status?

00:27:08.189 --> 00:27:12.649

<v Justin>The first step is understanding that any brand worth their salt has multiple

00:27:12.649 --> 00:27:16.149

<v Justin>strategies that they're employing when they work with collaborators.

00:27:16.429 --> 00:27:20.229

<v Justin>And so the first one is free stuff, gifting, product seeding.

00:27:20.349 --> 00:27:21.529

<v Justin>They're going to do this all day long.

00:27:21.789 --> 00:27:24.649

<v Justin>They're going to see, can we send this out to hundreds of people and see if

00:27:24.649 --> 00:27:27.669

<v Justin>they'll, you know, we can build goodwill, see if they'll talk about us for free.

00:27:27.809 --> 00:27:30.389

<v Justin>They're going to do this all day long. And so if you're constantly getting upset

00:27:30.389 --> 00:27:33.249

<v Justin>that they're doing this, just understand this is reality. They're going to do

00:27:33.249 --> 00:27:34.569

<v Justin>this from now until the end of time.

00:27:34.869 --> 00:27:37.969

<v Justin>Right. And so that's one thing is like the gifting strategy.

00:27:38.189 --> 00:27:41.009

<v Justin>And then you're right. Affiliate strategy is a big part of it.

00:27:41.309 --> 00:27:45.549

<v Justin>Oftentimes, this is the first foray that brands have into working with partners.

00:27:45.709 --> 00:27:49.289

<v Justin>It's like, okay, hey, we were doing the free stuff, but now it would be nice

00:27:49.289 --> 00:27:54.329

<v Justin>if we could incentivize people to actually maybe drive some conversions,

00:27:54.489 --> 00:27:56.849

<v Justin>drive some sales, drive some signups for Ecamm, et cetera.

00:27:57.349 --> 00:28:01.309

<v Justin>And we're going to reward them with a commission if they drive those sales.

00:28:01.429 --> 00:28:04.549

<v Justin>Who wouldn't want to have an affiliate army out there talking about them.

00:28:04.689 --> 00:28:08.309

<v Justin>And we only have to, you know, compensate them when they drive an action.

00:28:08.949 --> 00:28:11.589

<v Justin>And so, and then there's that final bucket, which is like, okay,

00:28:11.649 --> 00:28:15.529

<v Justin>now we're actually compensating partners with a flat amount or hybrid compensation, whatever.

00:28:15.729 --> 00:28:18.909

<v Justin>And so the first thing is just like understanding that like any brain worth

00:28:18.909 --> 00:28:20.829

<v Justin>their salt should be doing all three of these things.

00:28:21.909 --> 00:28:26.189

<v Justin>And so the question from my crafty adventure, good to see you by,

00:28:26.209 --> 00:28:27.509

<v Justin>I see them on my live streams all the time.

00:28:27.689 --> 00:28:33.089

<v Justin>Good to see you by the way, is understanding that you need, it's your job actually,

00:28:33.309 --> 00:28:36.909

<v Justin>to articulate to the brand why they should pay you a flat amount.

00:28:37.589 --> 00:28:42.229

<v Justin>Because if all you're saying is like, I think it's fair, I only think it's fair

00:28:42.229 --> 00:28:45.129

<v Justin>if you pay me now, that's not, they're going to be like, sorry,

00:28:45.269 --> 00:28:47.729

<v Justin>we've got a line of, you know, 50 other affiliates that are like,

00:28:47.849 --> 00:28:49.049

<v Justin>okay, accepting this deal.

00:28:49.409 --> 00:28:54.069

<v Justin>So your job is to come to them and say, look, you know, number one,

00:28:54.189 --> 00:28:55.289

<v Justin>I've loved collaborating with you.

00:28:55.429 --> 00:29:00.429

<v Justin>In fact, I have a ton of, you know, proof that I've driven lots of affiliate

00:29:00.429 --> 00:29:02.309

<v Justin>performance over the last two years.

00:29:02.509 --> 00:29:05.949

<v Justin>So right away, if you've already got affiliate performance, that's a great baseline.

00:29:06.189 --> 00:29:08.129

<v Justin>If you're going to come to them and pitch them something else,

00:29:08.369 --> 00:29:11.729

<v Justin>the brand already knows that you have some credibility versus someone coming

00:29:11.729 --> 00:29:12.709

<v Justin>in cold off the street, right?

00:29:13.169 --> 00:29:17.089

<v Justin>But the second thing is that critically, you're pitching them something different

00:29:17.089 --> 00:29:19.369

<v Justin>than all the other affiliates.

00:29:19.449 --> 00:29:23.849

<v Justin>So what I talk about a lot is like when there is some sort of especially flat

00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:29.649

<v Justin>compensation component to a partnership, there's rightfully more control that

00:29:29.649 --> 00:29:31.829

<v Justin>the brand has over the content that's generated.

00:29:32.209 --> 00:29:35.009

<v Justin>When you just have an affiliate relationship, right?

00:29:35.129 --> 00:29:37.889

<v Justin>Katie, you could appreciate this. Like you don't have control over what people

00:29:37.889 --> 00:29:41.849

<v Justin>are saying about Ecamm when they are talking about them in a YouTube video on a podcast or whatever.

00:29:42.523 --> 00:29:46.463

<v Justin>However, if you have some sort of campaign where you've got some sort of seasonal

00:29:46.463 --> 00:29:48.843

<v Justin>promotion or soundbite that you need,

00:29:49.283 --> 00:29:54.783

<v Justin>that is why you likely will decide to compensate someone in a flat capacity

00:29:54.783 --> 00:29:58.703

<v Justin>because you will then be able to dictate and say, hey, I need to see a draft of this.

00:29:58.963 --> 00:30:01.763

<v Justin>Before this goes live, I need to ensure that you're saying it correctly.

00:30:01.883 --> 00:30:03.383

<v Justin>You're pronouncing the name of Ecamm

00:30:03.383 --> 00:30:06.243

<v Justin>properly. Obviously, it's easy to put Ecamm, but like a lot of brands.

00:30:06.843 --> 00:30:10.003

<v Justin>Oh, my God. Like you may not. Yeah. Oh, you say you're a real fan of me,

00:30:10.103 --> 00:30:11.443

<v Justin>but you mispronounce the name. Anyways.

00:30:12.763 --> 00:30:16.043

<v Justin>And so these are the types of things that you can say that like,

00:30:16.143 --> 00:30:19.943

<v Justin>look, here's what when you work with me in this heightened capacity,

00:30:20.203 --> 00:30:21.643

<v Justin>here's what you can expect.

00:30:21.783 --> 00:30:23.443

<v Justin>You know, up to two rounds of

00:30:23.443 --> 00:30:28.343

<v Justin>revisions, you know, less than 48 hour turnaround time on draft feedback.

00:30:28.643 --> 00:30:31.043

<v Justin>I can get you the drafts within this amount of time.

00:30:31.703 --> 00:30:35.843

<v Justin>You know, we can work together to, you know, ensure that in future iterations

00:30:35.843 --> 00:30:39.543

<v Justin>of the partnership, we update the messaging based on feedback that we received from the first one.

00:30:39.543 --> 00:30:45.703

<v Justin>So there's this whole, what I call kind of merit-based value conversation that

00:30:45.703 --> 00:30:48.923

<v Justin>you can have that's going to differentiate you from all the other affiliates

00:30:48.923 --> 00:30:49.583

<v Justin>that they're working with.

00:30:49.723 --> 00:30:52.863

<v Justin>Here's a very quick pivot to make it very, very tactical. Let's say you have

00:30:52.863 --> 00:30:54.283

<v Justin>an affiliate offer come inbound.

00:30:55.103 --> 00:30:58.443

<v Justin>You come to them and say, oh, yeah, awesome. I'm going to go check out your

00:30:58.443 --> 00:31:01.343

<v Justin>affiliate program, right? You don't need to make any commitments,

00:31:01.363 --> 00:31:02.623

<v Justin>but you say, I'm going to go check it out.

00:31:02.783 --> 00:31:07.783

<v Justin>Just out of curiosity, do your affiliates also grant you the rights to repurpose

00:31:07.783 --> 00:31:11.083

<v Justin>their content for paid ads? because that's something that I specialize in.

00:31:12.003 --> 00:31:15.263

<v Justin>Let me know if you'd like me to send over a few investment options for what that might look like.

00:31:15.683 --> 00:31:19.563

<v Justin>And so all of a sudden the brand's like, oh, actually, no, we don't get the

00:31:19.563 --> 00:31:22.103

<v Justin>rights to repurpose content from the affiliates.

00:31:22.323 --> 00:31:25.723

<v Justin>This person actually seems maybe different. Maybe they're focused on UGC or

00:31:25.723 --> 00:31:27.863

<v Justin>they specialize in this. Let's actually talk to this person.

00:31:28.023 --> 00:31:31.743

<v Justin>So right away there, you're pivoting. You're like, wow, this person seems different, right?

00:31:32.183 --> 00:31:35.043

<v Katie>Yeah. And again, like, I think so much of it just comes down to,

00:31:35.423 --> 00:31:39.323

<v Katie>and maybe I'm just super jaded, so apologies to everyone, But it comes down

00:31:39.323 --> 00:31:41.763

<v Katie>to this like level of thoughtfulness.

00:31:42.083 --> 00:31:46.463

<v Katie>Like, again, even like that conversation is just like, oh, this person like

00:31:46.463 --> 00:31:50.603

<v Katie>cares deeper about this than like, oh, I'm just going to sign up for your affiliate

00:31:50.603 --> 00:31:54.283

<v Katie>program. And like, I'll add that to my list of 9,000 different affiliates that I have.

00:31:54.403 --> 00:31:57.283

<v Katie>Like this person is like, oh no, like I actually really want to work with you.

00:31:57.463 --> 00:32:01.603

<v Katie>And like, I have some deeper questions about what this program looks like,

00:32:01.823 --> 00:32:04.903

<v Katie>what might be successful for you and what might be successful for me.

00:32:04.903 --> 00:32:08.683

<v Katie>Like that's the beginning of a great relationship as well.

00:32:08.863 --> 00:32:13.483

<v Katie>So like what I think what a lot of people don't fully appreciate is that so

00:32:13.483 --> 00:32:17.223

<v Katie>much of it is a relationship game because I know everyone who,

00:32:17.223 --> 00:32:18.743

<v Katie>you know, who approaches me that I,

00:32:18.943 --> 00:32:23.143

<v Katie>that we end up working with are the people who are saying things like I'm looking

00:32:23.143 --> 00:32:24.423

<v Katie>for a long-term relationship.

00:32:24.783 --> 00:32:29.423

<v Katie>I'm, you know, I like, I'm in this for the long haul. I love, you know, I love Ecamm.

00:32:29.543 --> 00:32:31.743

<v Katie>I love everything you guys are doing. I really want to be able to work with

00:32:31.743 --> 00:32:36.183

<v Katie>you. Like the long-term relationships start with understanding what's mutually

00:32:36.183 --> 00:32:39.643

<v Katie>beneficial and like, and building kind of those, that personal side to it.

00:32:40.976 --> 00:32:44.336

<v Justin>You know, Katie, one of the things that I really encourage people to do,

00:32:44.496 --> 00:32:47.096

<v Justin>and this is one of the central themes throughout my book, Sponsor Magnet,

00:32:47.236 --> 00:32:50.056

<v Justin>is like, imagine you're the brand. I say this a lot.

00:32:50.336 --> 00:32:52.636

<v Justin>Let's just like put on the hat, imagine we're the brand.

00:32:53.896 --> 00:32:58.976

<v Justin>You know, obviously you are kind of the chief decision maker for a lot of these. What's that?

00:32:59.276 --> 00:33:02.516

<v Katie>No, I'm just laughing. Okay. I've imagined I'm the brand. Go ahead.

00:33:02.716 --> 00:33:06.136

<v Justin>Yeah. Imagine you're the brand. This is what I'm saying to creators, obviously.

00:33:06.136 --> 00:33:12.336

<v Justin>Um, but, um, you know, oftentimes in almost all scenarios, the person that you're

00:33:12.336 --> 00:33:15.196

<v Justin>interacting with, if you send them some sort of proposal,

00:33:15.376 --> 00:33:21.076

<v Justin>They have to then go to their boss or if it's an agency, go to their client

00:33:21.076 --> 00:33:25.436

<v Justin>and be like, this person's asking for money and the boss is going to be like,

00:33:25.576 --> 00:33:26.956

<v Justin>why should we give them this money? Right.

00:33:27.116 --> 00:33:32.736

<v Justin>And so your job is to imagine that whole conversation going down.

00:33:32.736 --> 00:33:39.916

<v Justin>And so if you can provide air cover or fodder or a good justification to this

00:33:39.916 --> 00:33:42.696

<v Justin>person that you have not talked to, they don't know who you are at all,

00:33:42.836 --> 00:33:49.276

<v Justin>then that is the key to unlocking these budgets, which is why the first page

00:33:49.276 --> 00:33:52.776

<v Justin>in your proposal that I advise people to do when you're interacting with the

00:33:52.776 --> 00:33:55.776

<v Justin>brand is what I heard, which is the goals.

00:33:55.776 --> 00:33:58.736

<v Justin>So you have this initial conversation with your brand contact,

00:33:58.736 --> 00:34:03.016

<v Justin>and it's a straight regurgitation of like, here is exactly what I heard it seems

00:34:03.016 --> 00:34:04.016

<v Justin>like you're trying to accomplish.

00:34:04.136 --> 00:34:07.276

<v Justin>Because when that proposal gets shared to six other people who don't know who

00:34:07.276 --> 00:34:12.016

<v Justin>you are, and you're asking for 20K or whatever, they're going to feel way more

00:34:12.016 --> 00:34:14.136

<v Justin>– they're going to get this warm and fuzzy feeling that like,

00:34:14.196 --> 00:34:17.276

<v Justin>okay, this person understands what we're trying to accomplish as a brand.

00:34:17.276 --> 00:34:21.116

<v Justin>They're asking for this money, but yet at the same time, we feel more certainty

00:34:21.116 --> 00:34:25.816

<v Justin>that they're going to get us closer to that objective. And so I think that this is like an app.

00:34:25.956 --> 00:34:30.396

<v Justin>People have told me that this, just this specific piece of advice of like aligning

00:34:30.396 --> 00:34:34.676

<v Justin>what you're pitching to their objectives is an absolute game changer.

00:34:34.996 --> 00:34:37.916

<v Katie>Yeah. Yeah, I can. I can absolutely see that.

00:34:38.136 --> 00:34:41.816

<v Katie>So, yeah, definitely put on put on that hat and really think that process through

00:34:41.816 --> 00:34:44.256

<v Katie>as I do. I do think that will go a really long way.

00:34:44.991 --> 00:34:48.851

<v Katie>Um, let's talk a little bit, let's get into, to negotiating.

00:34:48.851 --> 00:34:52.971

<v Katie>So let's say everyone here has now feels, feels capable and confident.

00:34:52.971 --> 00:34:56.131

<v Katie>They're, they're ready to put together kind of their initial pitch.

00:34:56.311 --> 00:34:59.171

<v Katie>They've captured attention from the brand that they're super excited to work

00:34:59.171 --> 00:35:02.291

<v Katie>with. And they get on that call. They're having this conversation.

00:35:02.391 --> 00:35:03.551

<v Katie>Everything's going really, really well.

00:35:03.731 --> 00:35:07.691

<v Katie>And then, you know, they get into the, the complicated money talk.

00:35:07.911 --> 00:35:11.971

<v Katie>How do you, how do you negotiate back and forth or what advice do you have for

00:35:11.971 --> 00:35:17.671

<v Katie>creators who are newer to this on, on how to be successful at this and how to

00:35:17.671 --> 00:35:18.671

<v Katie>build confidence as well?

00:35:18.731 --> 00:35:22.291

<v Katie>Because I think a lot of it comes down to not quite feeling sure of yourself

00:35:22.291 --> 00:35:23.451

<v Katie>in some of these moments.

00:35:25.471 --> 00:35:28.271

<v Justin>So the first advice I would give is never negotiate on the call.

00:35:28.471 --> 00:35:29.591

<v Justin>That's not the point of a call.

00:35:29.911 --> 00:35:33.691

<v Justin>The point of a call is a discovery mission. It's a fact-finding mission.

00:35:34.991 --> 00:35:38.831

<v Justin>If you're ever in a situation where a brand has backed you up into a corner

00:35:38.831 --> 00:35:41.671

<v Justin>and be like, how much do you charge? Give me the number.

00:35:42.131 --> 00:35:45.351

<v Justin>Come on, just throw out a ballpark. Come on, it's okay. You know, this type of thing.

00:35:45.611 --> 00:35:49.051

<v Justin>You have to stand firm and say, you know what? This whole call.

00:35:49.151 --> 00:35:51.551

<v Justin>So first of all, let's back up. Yeah. What is the purpose of a call?

00:35:52.591 --> 00:35:56.131

<v Justin>I always, always encourage people to get on, especially these kind of discovery

00:35:56.131 --> 00:35:58.091

<v Justin>calls at the outset of a relationship.

00:35:58.151 --> 00:36:01.151

<v Justin>Because number one, you establish the rapport, right?

00:36:01.931 --> 00:36:04.871

<v Justin>Katie, you and I got on a call, right? Like a little inside baseball here,

00:36:05.031 --> 00:36:06.371

<v Justin>right? Like we got connected.

00:36:06.751 --> 00:36:10.191

<v Justin>And that was the point of our call is I just wanted to like meet you.

00:36:10.191 --> 00:36:13.931

<v Justin>I wanted to understand about, you know, what was going on in your, in your world.

00:36:15.171 --> 00:36:18.611

<v Justin>We, at the end of that call, we didn't get into this like hard negotiation.

00:36:18.711 --> 00:36:21.091

<v Justin>It wasn't just like, okay, Justin, how much do you charge or whatever?

00:36:21.351 --> 00:36:24.371

<v Justin>Of course, some brands will ask that, but really the point of the call,

00:36:24.551 --> 00:36:27.611

<v Justin>I was like, yeah, you did. And I felt super, you felt super intimidated.

00:36:27.671 --> 00:36:30.831

<v Justin>You were like giving me a noogie and like a headlock. It was like crazy.

00:36:32.451 --> 00:36:36.291

<v Justin>And you were reliving your old VHS fantasies. I don't know what was, it was weird there.

00:36:36.411 --> 00:36:41.611

<v Justin>I don't know. It was like the Goonies or something. Um, so, but so the point

00:36:41.611 --> 00:36:45.991

<v Justin>was, is like, I just asked a bunch of questions like that, that really was the

00:36:45.991 --> 00:36:48.551

<v Justin>goal of the call, get to know you, learn more about you.

00:36:48.811 --> 00:36:51.051

<v Justin>I shared a bit about my business and all that. Right.

00:36:51.471 --> 00:36:56.451

<v Justin>Um, and so, um, that absolutely always at the end of the day should be the goal of the calls.

00:36:56.591 --> 00:36:59.771

<v Justin>But if there is ever is a situation where a brand does back you into a corner

00:36:59.771 --> 00:37:03.171

<v Justin>and does ask you, well, how much does you typically charge for this type of thing?

00:37:03.431 --> 00:37:07.151

<v Justin>I want everyone watching or listening to just like clip this verbatim and just

00:37:07.151 --> 00:37:08.791

<v Justin>remember, you could just say this back to a brand.

00:37:08.971 --> 00:37:12.571

<v Justin>You say, hey, just get out your pencil. Say, hey, thank you so much.

00:37:12.631 --> 00:37:14.131

<v Justin>This call has been so useful.

00:37:15.051 --> 00:37:19.411

<v Justin>I would actually love to put together a custom proposal for you.

00:37:20.671 --> 00:37:25.051

<v Justin>And usually what I do is I put together three to four packages to give you a

00:37:25.051 --> 00:37:27.291

<v Justin>sense of how I could bring this partnership to life.

00:37:27.651 --> 00:37:32.891

<v Justin>Do you have a sense, brand? Do you have a sense, Katie, of what I should set

00:37:32.891 --> 00:37:38.251

<v Justin>those three to four tiers at from a budget feasibility perspective. Yep.

00:37:39.086 --> 00:37:42.386

<v Justin>So this is very different than saying, hey, what's your budget?

00:37:42.386 --> 00:37:43.486

<v Katie>Hey, what's your budget? Yeah, exactly.

00:37:43.866 --> 00:37:46.226

<v Justin>Hey, what's your budget? Because like you just said, number one,

00:37:46.326 --> 00:37:49.806

<v Justin>you either might not have a budget specifically for this person that reached out to you.

00:37:51.386 --> 00:37:56.426

<v Justin>Hopefully you asked during that call, you honed in on your objectives,

00:37:56.646 --> 00:37:59.306

<v Justin>right? So you know that if I'm going to put a proposal together,

00:37:59.466 --> 00:38:02.426

<v Justin>if this creator is going to put a proposal together, it's related to the objective

00:38:02.426 --> 00:38:03.406

<v Justin>that you outlined, right?

00:38:03.606 --> 00:38:07.786

<v Justin>And so now you're thinking, okay, if I can give this person a range, if I can be like, okay,

00:38:08.906 --> 00:38:12.966

<v Justin>You know, 5, 10, 15K or whatever, 1, 2, 3K or whatever it is,

00:38:13.426 --> 00:38:18.686

<v Justin>50, 150K, I don't know, depending on the brand, that gives you a couple things.

00:38:18.726 --> 00:38:21.846

<v Justin>Number one, wiggle room, right?

00:38:21.906 --> 00:38:26.926

<v Justin>Because probably you may be negotiating with 10 other creators,

00:38:27.106 --> 00:38:29.406

<v Justin>especially if you have like a seasonal campaign or something, right?

00:38:29.406 --> 00:38:31.986

<v Justin>And you reach out to a bunch of people, you've got this larger budget,

00:38:32.186 --> 00:38:34.646

<v Justin>you've got the 50K, the 100K, whatever it is, and you have to,

00:38:34.726 --> 00:38:37.226

<v Justin>what I call, Tetris the budget together, right?

00:38:37.306 --> 00:38:42.266

<v Justin>Because everyone has different rates, right? And different scopes of work,

00:38:42.446 --> 00:38:43.386

<v Justin>different deliverables probably.

00:38:43.746 --> 00:38:49.446

<v Justin>And so by providing someone a range, when you're late at night,

00:38:49.826 --> 00:38:52.626

<v Justin>you're like working on the spreadsheet and trying to figure out the numbers,

00:38:53.346 --> 00:38:57.746

<v Justin>You have to figure out if you can slot in that 10th creator with some sort of

00:38:57.746 --> 00:39:00.306

<v Justin>option that they provided you, right? Because you really wanted to work with them.

00:39:00.626 --> 00:39:04.466

<v Justin>And so this is why I always encourage people to ask about this range instead

00:39:04.466 --> 00:39:07.386

<v Justin>of the concrete budget, because if you say 10K, what are they going to come

00:39:07.386 --> 00:39:08.786

<v Justin>back with the proposal at? 10K.

00:39:09.346 --> 00:39:12.446

<v Justin>And when push comes to shove. And so part of what I talk about when it comes

00:39:12.446 --> 00:39:18.106

<v Justin>to a sponsorship strategy is that your goal is to have some sort of option for

00:39:18.106 --> 00:39:19.546

<v Justin>the brand to move forward with you at.

00:39:19.946 --> 00:39:22.766

<v Justin>And it's not about maximizing the money that you make on every deal.

00:39:22.926 --> 00:39:26.006

<v Justin>It's about this, what I call a money ball approach to sponsorships.

00:39:26.166 --> 00:39:29.126

<v Justin>It's like hitting singles, hitting doubles all day long.

00:39:29.326 --> 00:39:32.846

<v Justin>That is the business that my wife and I have built over the last 15 years.

00:39:32.986 --> 00:39:36.366

<v Justin>We have not, we've not been the people that have had the millions of subscribers

00:39:36.366 --> 00:39:38.266

<v Justin>or the millions of followers or views or whatever.

00:39:38.386 --> 00:39:42.106

<v Justin>It's always been the like tens or hundreds of thousands following this type of thing.

00:39:42.426 --> 00:39:45.646

<v Justin>And yet we've been able to build a really robust sponsorship business by hitting

00:39:45.646 --> 00:39:46.826

<v Justin>singles and doubles all day long.

00:39:47.126 --> 00:39:50.306

<v Justin>And it's not super sexy, but like, it's a great life, you know?

00:39:50.406 --> 00:39:54.146

<v Justin>And so I don't know, this has been my approach that seemed to resonate with people.

00:39:54.346 --> 00:39:57.526

<v Katie>Yeah, it definitely, I mean, it resonates, it resonates with me.

00:39:57.646 --> 00:39:59.806

<v Katie>I can see how it would doesn't it? With other brands and businesses.

00:40:00.166 --> 00:40:05.666

<v Katie>The other thing I really want to point out to everyone watching and listening is that what you did,

00:40:05.966 --> 00:40:09.746

<v Katie>which not a lot of people do, and I think you did really well,

00:40:10.006 --> 00:40:17.226

<v Katie>is you sent a video over, but it was not, it was a very like,

00:40:17.967 --> 00:40:24.187

<v Katie>not crazy long, nice introduction. In the video, you showed that you clearly

00:40:24.187 --> 00:40:27.207

<v Katie>knew who I was, knew who Kim was.

00:40:27.447 --> 00:40:32.027

<v Katie>It was a really nice, easy approach because I could see that come through.

00:40:32.027 --> 00:40:34.987

<v Katie>I could immediately say it's a video. I could be like, okay, great.

00:40:35.187 --> 00:40:41.487

<v Katie>I can find time to watch that on the other end of it. I know what your expectations are going into it.

00:40:41.767 --> 00:40:47.207

<v Katie>That is way easier for someone like me to be able to navigate and looks much

00:40:47.207 --> 00:40:51.007

<v Katie>more professional and builds rapport a lot better than, hey,

00:40:51.067 --> 00:40:52.607

<v Katie>I really would just love to get on a call with you.

00:40:52.687 --> 00:40:55.947

<v Katie>Because a lot of people look at their calendar and go like, oh,

00:40:56.067 --> 00:40:57.547

<v Katie>shoot, like, I would love to talk to this person.

00:40:57.767 --> 00:41:00.647

<v Katie>But I don't really totally know exactly what they're looking for at this point,

00:41:00.807 --> 00:41:03.427

<v Katie>other than like partnership or sponsorship, which is a, you know,

00:41:03.567 --> 00:41:04.927

<v Katie>could mean a ton of different things.

00:41:05.287 --> 00:41:09.987

<v Katie>And it's hard to kind of find the time sometimes on a calendar to figure it out.

00:41:10.067 --> 00:41:14.767

<v Katie>So that like recording a simple, clean, professional video, and again,

00:41:15.027 --> 00:41:20.167

<v Katie>almost all of you have Ecamm to do this with really easily, goes a really long way.

00:41:21.267 --> 00:41:24.047

<v Katie>Even if the person doesn't watch it,

00:41:24.207 --> 00:41:29.747

<v Katie>even if they look at the video, see it quickly, and then reads the transcript next to it,

00:41:29.887 --> 00:41:36.327

<v Katie>still just seeing that is way friendlier and easier to begin those conversations

00:41:36.327 --> 00:41:39.867

<v Katie>than I think Like a lot of the back and forth that can get lost in email or

00:41:39.867 --> 00:41:42.627

<v Katie>in DMs or just in a busy calendar.

00:41:42.847 --> 00:41:45.687

<v Katie>Like, you know, hey, sometimes we're really well-intentioned,

00:41:45.747 --> 00:41:50.147

<v Katie>but two weeks of back-to-back meetings and you're like, no, I can't do one more.

00:41:50.227 --> 00:41:51.887

<v Katie>I can't do one more meeting or call.

00:41:52.959 --> 00:41:55.959

<v Justin>I think, I think this is, well, first of all, thank you. That's very kind of you.

00:41:56.059 --> 00:41:59.859

<v Justin>And I do think that I advise people a lot to do these types of asynchronous

00:41:59.859 --> 00:42:02.719

<v Justin>videos when they're engaging with brands, especially on an initial,

00:42:03.099 --> 00:42:05.299

<v Justin>if there is a warm connection, that's great.

00:42:05.419 --> 00:42:09.539

<v Justin>But like, even on a cold thing, I've had a lot of success doing cold pitches

00:42:09.539 --> 00:42:13.559

<v Justin>with video where I'll literally, you know, take out my phone, like this type of thing.

00:42:13.659 --> 00:42:16.319

<v Justin>I've gotten so good at it now. We're all just like go into my phone.

00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:21.219

<v Justin>I'll do the 45 second pitch. I'll upload it unlisted to YouTube, for example.

00:42:21.499 --> 00:42:25.379

<v Justin>And that's the link I'll send on email or, you know, you can use Ecamm, obviously.

00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:32.139

<v Justin>And I actually think that this is going to become even more of a critical tactic in the age of AI.

00:42:33.399 --> 00:42:37.919

<v Justin>Because, you know, now that everyone basically has access to ChatGPT and like

00:42:37.919 --> 00:42:44.199

<v Justin>a good enough sounding, you know, email, marketers are going to be flooded with messages from,

00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:47.719

<v Justin>you know, just slop from people who are just mailing it in and trying to do

00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:49.199

<v Justin>this mail merge to hundreds of people.

00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:53.459

<v Justin>And so I do think this video approach where you can, again, connect the name

00:42:53.459 --> 00:42:55.719

<v Justin>to the face is going to be critical.

00:42:56.199 --> 00:43:01.319

<v Katie>Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then obviously it also limits the amount of like

00:43:01.319 --> 00:43:03.139

<v Katie>weird failure points that can happen.

00:43:03.319 --> 00:43:05.939

<v Katie>There's nothing more embarrassing than like, dear first name,

00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:09.199

<v Katie>I'm so excited to talk to you about insert project here, right?

00:43:09.299 --> 00:43:12.539

<v Katie>Like I've been there, I've like accidentally sent out, you know,

00:43:12.619 --> 00:43:15.399

<v Katie>an email that I worked super hard on the template and I was going to send it

00:43:15.399 --> 00:43:18.579

<v Katie>to, you know, I don't know, five or six different people and I've like accidentally

00:43:18.579 --> 00:43:20.719

<v Katie>left something in there or put the wrong name at the beginning.

00:43:20.959 --> 00:43:25.319

<v Katie>So I think like video solves a lot of, a lot of challenges there.

00:43:25.459 --> 00:43:29.159

<v Katie>It may take a little bit of extra time, but probably not a lot to be honest.

00:43:29.379 --> 00:43:31.899

<v Katie>Like it's a great starting point in these days. So easy.

00:43:32.139 --> 00:43:36.019

<v Katie>You know, if you have a defined space, sit down, you know, two minutes or three

00:43:36.019 --> 00:43:38.319

<v Katie>minutes to record a video and then send it out.

00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:43.619

<v Katie>It's probably as easy as trying to think through an email to send or a direct

00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:44.659

<v Katie>message or anything else.

00:43:45.703 --> 00:43:48.663

<v Justin>One theme that I hope people pull from this conversation, Katie,

00:43:48.823 --> 00:43:54.043

<v Justin>is like this tactic, making the asynchronous video, also doing the research

00:43:54.043 --> 00:43:57.803

<v Justin>on Mod Retro when we were trying to figure out, did this take us an hour?

00:43:58.143 --> 00:44:01.623

<v Justin>No. No, this didn't take us an hour. This took us five minutes, right?

00:44:01.723 --> 00:44:05.723

<v Justin>And so I think a lot of people look at pitching, doing outreach as this just,

00:44:05.903 --> 00:44:07.803

<v Justin>oh, it's like this tall task.

00:44:07.943 --> 00:44:10.883

<v Justin>And it's just like a huge pain in the butt. And I'm just, I'm so busy.

00:44:11.023 --> 00:44:13.563

<v Justin>I'm on the content hamster wheel. I don't have time to do this.

00:44:13.563 --> 00:44:16.703

<v Justin>And so I really, I, I people, a lot of people call me their kind of tough love

00:44:16.703 --> 00:44:19.323

<v Justin>mentor, which I'm just like, I love it. Like stop complaining.

00:44:19.463 --> 00:44:23.183

<v Justin>Like it does, it literally, it's way more impactful, impactful to do research

00:44:23.183 --> 00:44:26.963

<v Justin>on three to five brands versus the effort that you're trying to put into,

00:44:26.983 --> 00:44:30.563

<v Justin>to do this hundred brand outreach mail merge type thing.

00:44:30.723 --> 00:44:33.583

<v Justin>And you're being like, pitching doesn't work. Cause I'm only receiving like

00:44:33.583 --> 00:44:34.963

<v Justin>one or two responses on a hundred.

00:44:35.163 --> 00:44:37.943

<v Justin>You have these terrible emails. I'm like, well, it's not that surprising to

00:44:37.943 --> 00:44:42.923

<v Justin>me versus the, you know, let me, let me be intentional here and actually get

00:44:42.923 --> 00:44:44.783

<v Justin>on the radar with something that's thoughtful.

00:44:45.383 --> 00:44:52.343

<v Katie>Yeah, I know. I think it's huge. And finding the right partners as well is hugely important.

00:44:52.603 --> 00:44:54.823

<v Katie>So yeah, definitely agree.

00:44:55.783 --> 00:44:57.943

<v Justin>Katie, can I turn the tables on you actually?

00:44:58.103 --> 00:45:02.823

<v Katie>Yeah, turn the tables on me. If I go red in the face, you'll put me under fire. Go ahead.

00:45:03.423 --> 00:45:07.503

<v Justin>No, I think it's really important for people to listen to.

00:45:07.603 --> 00:45:12.143

<v Justin>If you had to envision, What does a perfect partner look like to you?

00:45:12.443 --> 00:45:15.243

<v Justin>You know, if you, like, who are the people that you think, let's say you had

00:45:15.243 --> 00:45:17.063

<v Justin>a campaign that you were about to run.

00:45:17.183 --> 00:45:20.943

<v Justin>You got 50 grand, you're going to run some sort of summer promotion or holiday campaign or whatever.

00:45:21.243 --> 00:45:24.023

<v Justin>Who are the people that instantly jumped to your mind that like,

00:45:24.083 --> 00:45:25.783

<v Justin>oh, these are the five people that I want to reach out to.

00:45:25.903 --> 00:45:29.883

<v Justin>And what is it about them that makes you want to engage them again?

00:45:30.243 --> 00:45:33.943

<v Katie>Oh my gosh. Gosh, I mean, usually if I'm thinking through a campaign,

00:45:34.323 --> 00:45:41.443

<v Katie>I have like a bank of influencers who I have a connection point with.

00:45:41.583 --> 00:45:45.223

<v Katie>So I'm like people who I have seen speak at events.

00:45:45.403 --> 00:45:47.903

<v Katie>I typically probably have connected with them on LinkedIn.

00:45:48.283 --> 00:45:52.203

<v Katie>They are like active users and consumers of our tool.

00:45:52.383 --> 00:45:56.043

<v Katie>So like I know that they understand the tool and aren't just like they understand

00:45:56.043 --> 00:45:59.143

<v Katie>and are using it on a regular basis in whatever capacity makes sense to them.

00:46:00.143 --> 00:46:04.903

<v Katie>And I know that there are people that are going to be, are going to just get it.

00:46:05.023 --> 00:46:07.263

<v Katie>So like the initial conversation with them is going to be like,

00:46:07.403 --> 00:46:10.523

<v Katie>I have this idea and they're going to be like, yep, like, this is how I can

00:46:10.523 --> 00:46:12.683

<v Katie>translate that. That will work out really well.

00:46:12.923 --> 00:46:16.323

<v Katie>And the, you know, the relationship, I guess the answer is the relationship

00:46:16.323 --> 00:46:21.083

<v Katie>is there to some level where it, the initial conversation is really easy.

00:46:21.303 --> 00:46:26.123

<v Katie>The process is really easy. And I trust that they're going to deliver the content

00:46:26.123 --> 00:46:30.123

<v Katie>that I need because I know them well enough. I know that they're going to deliver.

00:46:31.984 --> 00:46:36.004

<v Justin>All right, so the lesson that I want everyone to hear from what Katie just said

00:46:36.004 --> 00:46:45.024

<v Justin>is that do not be afraid to start using and being vocal about products and tools that you love.

00:46:45.204 --> 00:46:50.264

<v Justin>If you're already in an affiliate program for a brand or you're already someone

00:46:50.264 --> 00:46:54.884

<v Justin>who's been tagging them, you're a known quantity, you're engaging on their live

00:46:54.884 --> 00:46:57.684

<v Justin>streams, they're engaging when you're posting on LinkedIn, they're engaging,

00:46:57.964 --> 00:46:59.684

<v Justin>you know who these people are.

00:46:59.844 --> 00:47:03.244

<v Justin>I think a lot of people are fearful of like, well, if I talk about the brand

00:47:03.244 --> 00:47:04.824

<v Justin>for free, why would they ever pay me?

00:47:05.264 --> 00:47:10.824

<v Justin>And what I hope the insight here that everyone realizes is that it's so much

00:47:10.824 --> 00:47:15.724

<v Justin>easier to partner with someone who's already familiar with the brand ethos and

00:47:15.724 --> 00:47:17.064

<v Justin>values and functionality

00:47:17.504 --> 00:47:21.664

<v Justin>and key benefits versus educating someone cold who just came in off the street.

00:47:21.764 --> 00:47:26.344

<v Justin>And like we told earlier, like you probably got very specific talking points

00:47:26.344 --> 00:47:28.944

<v Justin>that you needed them to say for this seasonal promotion or whatever it is,

00:47:29.004 --> 00:47:33.144

<v Justin>right? Something that you would never say randomly and like a shout out on social media, right?

00:47:33.684 --> 00:47:40.644

<v Katie>Yeah. And I'm often trying to find like the right people for the content that I'm creating.

00:47:40.824 --> 00:47:45.144

<v Katie>Like, so, and, you know, who knows, maybe some of this is Ecamm specific and

00:47:45.144 --> 00:47:48.524

<v Katie>some of this is not, but it's, you know, Ecamm has a really wide customer base.

00:47:48.604 --> 00:47:53.744

<v Katie>And so we have like three different buckets of customers that we're trying to get in front of.

00:47:53.844 --> 00:47:56.924

<v Katie>And so I'm like, I'm looking for specific personalities, right?

00:47:56.924 --> 00:48:01.504

<v Katie>I know that maybe I'm trying to find someone who's incredible in the live streaming

00:48:01.504 --> 00:48:05.264

<v Katie>space, who's using eCamp for live streaming often, who has an audience that understands live.

00:48:05.424 --> 00:48:11.084

<v Katie>I might also be looking for a person who only ever does webinars and is never

00:48:11.084 --> 00:48:13.664

<v Katie>live and lives and breathes in the Zoom environment.

00:48:13.664 --> 00:48:18.824

<v Katie>And they might be on the same campaign, but I need for them to be in that world

00:48:18.824 --> 00:48:22.964

<v Katie>and be well-respected in that space and be able to create content according

00:48:22.964 --> 00:48:24.224

<v Katie>to our standards in that place.

00:48:24.364 --> 00:48:29.364

<v Katie>So like I have a very clear vision on the projects that I'm working on and planning and building.

00:48:29.544 --> 00:48:32.944

<v Katie>I know exactly who the kinds of people are that I'm looking for.

00:48:34.100 --> 00:48:36.280

<v Justin>You know, you know, it's a critical insight about what you just said,

00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.180

<v Justin>Katie, because I think this is something that a lot of brands experience is

00:48:39.180 --> 00:48:41.220

<v Justin>that you have different customer personas.

00:48:44.020 --> 00:48:46.920

<v Justin>And let's say someone listening to this or hears this, here's what you just

00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:48.000

<v Justin>said about the three types.

00:48:48.140 --> 00:48:50.460

<v Justin>Yeah. What I would, what I would come and pitch to you, Katie,

00:48:50.560 --> 00:48:52.340

<v Justin>I'm not me, but if someone else wants to hear this, you'd be like,

00:48:52.540 --> 00:48:57.240

<v Justin>Hey, let me create a bunch of knowledge-based tutorials for that persona. Yep.

00:48:57.460 --> 00:49:00.200

<v Justin>The person who just does webinars. Let me create 15 different,

00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:03.620

<v Justin>here's all the 15 different things. I use it all the time for webinars and here's

00:49:03.620 --> 00:49:04.580

<v Justin>all the different use cases.

00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.640

<v Justin>If they came to you and being like, Hey, it's going to be 15 tutorial videos.

00:49:07.660 --> 00:49:09.400

<v Justin>It's going to be five grand. I don't know, whatever it is, but you would,

00:49:09.500 --> 00:49:12.260

<v Justin>you know, turn key just like, Oh yeah, we have that persona.

00:49:12.900 --> 00:49:16.220

<v Justin>That actually sounds great. Cause we need more tutorials like that.

00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:19.320

<v Justin>This same example is universal.

00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:24.540

<v Justin>I think a lot about a lot of brands, they have two to three to five key personas

00:49:24.540 --> 00:49:27.880

<v Justin>that they would love to have, whether it's training documentation,

00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:33.060

<v Justin>a customer phasing, marketing material for these different personas so that

00:49:33.060 --> 00:49:35.880

<v Justin>they don't have to do it because they don't have a lot of bandwidth internally

00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:37.180

<v Justin>with their own marketing staff, right?

00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:41.160

<v Katie>Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, like, I'm not a like, you know,

00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:44.040

<v Katie>I'm not I don't fit all of those different personas.

00:49:44.040 --> 00:49:47.640

<v Katie>Like, or, you know, if I if I'm creating, I'm not creating in the way that like,

00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:52.700

<v Katie>you know, a Stephanie Garcia is or a Pat Flynn is or Justin Morris, right?

00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:56.040

<v Katie>Like there are people who have built up these like huge, you know,

00:49:56.160 --> 00:49:58.620

<v Katie>huge communities and are recognizable faces in that space.

00:49:59.520 --> 00:50:06.160

<v Katie>But I should not to say that if you are a micro-influencer, that does not mean

00:50:06.160 --> 00:50:12.420

<v Katie>that a brand isn't paying attention to you. I want to give a story, actually.

00:50:13.040 --> 00:50:17.660

<v Katie>So we have this incredible Ecamm fam who many, if not all of you,

00:50:17.720 --> 00:50:18.840

<v Katie>are part of, which is incredible.

00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:21.900

<v Katie>We have a Facebook group, and then we have a Discord space.

00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:27.860

<v Katie>Years back, when I first joined the team, Um, Marshall Fox, who is now our full-time

00:50:27.860 --> 00:50:31.760

<v Katie>designer and also does like a ton of video content for us.

00:50:32.020 --> 00:50:36.400

<v Katie>He was part of the Ecamm fam. He was new to the software and he was just playing

00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:40.740

<v Katie>around with LUTs, which was a new feature for Ecamm that allowed you basically

00:50:40.740 --> 00:50:43.800

<v Katie>to give like Instagram type filters on your video.

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:46.860

<v Katie>He was just playing with it in the, in the Ecamm group.

00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:52.300

<v Katie>And his video looked so cool that I said, Oh, like I should just talk to that guy.

00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:56.620

<v Katie>He clearly understands Lutz, I'll see if I can hire him to do a video for our

00:50:56.620 --> 00:50:59.680

<v Katie>YouTube channel to explain what Lutz are, because he's clearly better at it

00:50:59.680 --> 00:51:01.220

<v Katie>than I am. So he was just...

00:51:01.836 --> 00:51:05.916

<v Katie>Playing around with it publicly in our group. Like, and I'm sure he didn't think twice about it.

00:51:05.996 --> 00:51:09.416

<v Katie>And it went from that project where, you know, that he did this video for us,

00:51:09.496 --> 00:51:13.676

<v Katie>which he did an incredible job with at, you know, cause he is a designer to

00:51:13.676 --> 00:51:17.196

<v Katie>doing more videos, to doing more videos, to helping out with design projects.

00:51:17.296 --> 00:51:20.536

<v Katie>And now he, he does literally all of the design for our entire company.

00:51:20.676 --> 00:51:25.676

<v Katie>Right. Like, but that, like, that's the, the path that, and I'm sure that I'm

00:51:25.676 --> 00:51:29.236

<v Katie>not alone in like in, in my role, but like that, like that's.

00:51:29.816 --> 00:51:33.896

<v Katie>That's the path that almost all of the people that we work with on a long-term

00:51:33.896 --> 00:51:38.656

<v Katie>basis, you know, have come to where it's like, they've, they've just been playing

00:51:38.656 --> 00:51:40.376

<v Katie>around or active in our space.

00:51:40.496 --> 00:51:42.916

<v Katie>And as you said, it doesn't even have to be like a huge thing.

00:51:43.016 --> 00:51:45.956

<v Katie>Like he, it was just one, I don't even know if it was a video or if it was like

00:51:45.956 --> 00:51:50.016

<v Katie>a couple of images he shared, but it wasn't like he spent hours and hours of

00:51:50.016 --> 00:51:52.956

<v Katie>time, like, you know, creating this thing to like attract our attention.

00:51:53.356 --> 00:51:56.716

<v Katie>He was just interested in it and, and clearly was good at it.

00:51:56.856 --> 00:51:59.756

<v Katie>And it solved a problem for us. And it, you know, started a conversation and

00:51:59.756 --> 00:52:04.316

<v Katie>we went from there. So I, and he had no huge public following.

00:52:04.476 --> 00:52:08.396

<v Katie>He didn't have a YouTube channel at all, but he, you know, he ended up being

00:52:08.396 --> 00:52:11.596

<v Katie>incredible at video and incredible at design and, and awesome.

00:52:11.736 --> 00:52:14.536

<v Katie>So yeah, I don't know. So if you're sitting out there listening and you're thinking,

00:52:14.756 --> 00:52:18.616

<v Katie>oh, I only have 200 people on my YouTube channel, or, you know,

00:52:18.776 --> 00:52:20.236

<v Katie>I'm just starting to grow my list.

00:52:20.356 --> 00:52:23.256

<v Katie>That doesn't mean that you can't work with, you know, with a brand or that you

00:52:23.256 --> 00:52:26.816

<v Katie>don't have something to offer or that you can't activate against some of these

00:52:26.816 --> 00:52:31.496

<v Katie>strategies. I think that, um, I think, you know, we're a fairly large brand

00:52:31.496 --> 00:52:34.976

<v Katie>and, you know, we work with a lot of really small creators on a number of different projects.

00:52:35.996 --> 00:52:40.736

<v Justin>Uh, you know, another way to re to re reverse engineer what you just described.

00:52:41.196 --> 00:52:45.656

<v Justin>Um, if you're a micro creator or nano creator listening to this,

00:52:45.856 --> 00:52:49.496

<v Justin>you know, a great way to figure out a way to do this for brands on a,

00:52:49.516 --> 00:52:55.616

<v Justin>on a shortcut, like speed run this literally go to their job boards and see

00:52:55.616 --> 00:52:56.496

<v Justin>what they need help with.

00:52:56.736 --> 00:53:00.216

<v Justin>Are they recruiting for a content marketing manager, an influencer marketing

00:53:00.216 --> 00:53:02.176

<v Justin>manager, a digital strategist?

00:53:02.556 --> 00:53:06.396

<v Justin>Look at the job description. They're saying, hey, we need support with this,

00:53:06.496 --> 00:53:07.436

<v Justin>this, this, this, this, this, this.

00:53:07.676 --> 00:53:10.336

<v Justin>Why not reach out to them and be like, hey, I can actually do this for you on

00:53:10.336 --> 00:53:15.096

<v Justin>a freelance basis in the following ways. They're literally telling you what they need help with.

00:53:15.256 --> 00:53:18.876

<v Justin>They would have never thought like, oh, let's go actually ask our pool of affiliates

00:53:18.876 --> 00:53:20.216

<v Justin>if anyone wants this job.

00:53:20.436 --> 00:53:23.676

<v Justin>It's like not the way most brands think. They think, let's make a job posting

00:53:23.676 --> 00:53:24.756

<v Justin>on our job board, you know?

00:53:25.056 --> 00:53:27.796

<v Justin>And so if you're the one like going through there and being like,

00:53:27.896 --> 00:53:31.436

<v Justin>I actually think I could help with this, there's a lot of advantages.

00:53:31.656 --> 00:53:33.856

<v Justin>They don't have to hire a full-time employee. You have the flexibility.

00:53:34.036 --> 00:53:38.356

<v Justin>You bring experience, you know, diverse experience on doing other things in

00:53:38.356 --> 00:53:39.396

<v Justin>your brand and your business.

00:53:39.896 --> 00:53:44.376

<v Justin>So like, absolutely, this is a way in which you can speed run what you just described.

00:53:44.536 --> 00:53:48.676

<v Katie>Yeah. No, I love it. I absolutely love it. Another question come through,

00:53:48.816 --> 00:53:50.356

<v Katie>and I know we're about to wrap here.

00:53:50.356 --> 00:53:54.516

<v Katie>But last question, Marianne asks, what do you say to a brand who want to use

00:53:54.516 --> 00:53:58.596

<v Katie>your content and will say, we'll tag you and that's it? How would you approach

00:53:58.596 --> 00:53:59.576

<v Katie>the next communication?

00:54:01.188 --> 00:54:03.908

<v Justin>The first thing you should not do is slam the door in their face and be like,

00:54:03.988 --> 00:54:04.868

<v Justin>you got to pay me for that.

00:54:05.788 --> 00:54:08.368

<v Justin>Because you got to treat this as an early signal of interest,

00:54:08.368 --> 00:54:12.408

<v Justin>that this brand values your content. They think it's interesting.

00:54:12.428 --> 00:54:13.728

<v Justin>They want to repurpose it.

00:54:14.888 --> 00:54:19.588

<v Justin>But you should absolutely open the door to other ways in which you can serve

00:54:19.588 --> 00:54:22.888

<v Justin>them beyond just repurposing. I think a lot of people think that like, oh, exposure.

00:54:23.168 --> 00:54:26.568

<v Justin>They've got 500,000 Instagram followers. If they regram it or repost it and

00:54:26.568 --> 00:54:28.988

<v Justin>tag me, I'll get all these followers. At least in my experience,

00:54:29.128 --> 00:54:31.468

<v Justin>that almost never amounts to any sort of meaningful traction.

00:54:32.308 --> 00:54:36.528

<v Justin>And so a better approach is to say, you know, be upbeat about it.

00:54:36.628 --> 00:54:39.908

<v Justin>Say, hey, thank you so much. That's awesome to hear that you're interested in

00:54:39.908 --> 00:54:40.928

<v Justin>repurposing my content.

00:54:41.528 --> 00:54:44.648

<v Justin>Typically, that's something that requires an investment. But I would love to

00:54:44.648 --> 00:54:46.848

<v Justin>learn a little bit more about some of your marketing goals.

00:54:47.488 --> 00:54:51.248

<v Justin>You know, are you, you know, you have any sort of campaigns coming up that you're

00:54:51.248 --> 00:54:52.588

<v Justin>hoping to use this content for?

00:54:53.068 --> 00:54:57.888

<v Justin>I actually have some ideas of new content that I could create to help further

00:54:57.888 --> 00:54:59.228

<v Justin>that initiative as well.

00:54:59.588 --> 00:55:03.928

<v Justin>I'm happy to grant rights to repurpose this existing content as part of this new relationship.

00:55:04.268 --> 00:55:06.868

<v Justin>Do you have a couple minutes to chat next week about this? And so,

00:55:07.128 --> 00:55:11.488

<v Justin>again, I think trying to get this out of the DMs as quickly as possible over

00:55:11.488 --> 00:55:15.208

<v Justin>to email, send them that asynchronous video like we talked about earlier.

00:55:15.208 --> 00:55:16.628

<v Justin>You're a person behind this.

00:55:17.088 --> 00:55:20.268

<v Justin>But again, also at the end of the day, I understand. There are some brands who,

00:55:20.288 --> 00:55:25.208

<v Justin>you know, repurposing content, just get the free content in exchange for the rights.

00:55:25.348 --> 00:55:26.068

<v Justin>They're going to do that all day

00:55:26.068 --> 00:55:29.488

<v Justin>long. And if they say, no, we don't compensate. That's fine. You tried.

00:55:29.708 --> 00:55:33.268

<v Justin>But just realize that there are scenarios in which you can open a larger conversation

00:55:33.268 --> 00:55:34.368

<v Justin>by being a bit more thoughtful.

00:55:34.728 --> 00:55:39.188

<v Katie>Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I, I don't think an hour has ever passed by so quickly.

00:55:39.368 --> 00:55:43.248

<v Katie>Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your expertise.

00:55:43.388 --> 00:55:45.188

<v Katie>I want to make sure everyone knows because you,

00:55:45.623 --> 00:55:49.983

<v Katie>are doing like a lot of incredible stuff. So first up, book,

00:55:50.183 --> 00:55:52.803

<v Katie>grab a copy of Sponsor Magnet, the book.

00:55:52.963 --> 00:55:57.823

<v Katie>I know Paul has dropped into the show notes as well as into the comments where people can grab that.

00:55:58.023 --> 00:56:02.023

<v Katie>You have an incredible event, which I am like so hopeful that we'll be able

00:56:02.023 --> 00:56:05.283

<v Katie>to be a part of in the next go round. Congratulations. Tell us about the event.

00:56:05.563 --> 00:56:09.203

<v Justin>Thank you. Yeah, the event was, it's called Sponsor Games.

00:56:09.443 --> 00:56:13.663

<v Justin>And it's the event that I have always wanted to exist for a decade plus.

00:56:14.363 --> 00:56:18.163

<v Justin>Basically that like, you know, I've been going to pretty much every industry

00:56:18.163 --> 00:56:20.423

<v Justin>event for creators over the last, you know, decade plus.

00:56:20.603 --> 00:56:24.103

<v Justin>And like, there would only ever be like maybe one or two talks about sponsorships.

00:56:24.243 --> 00:56:26.963

<v Justin>And I would always be so frustrated because it was like, this is the primary

00:56:26.963 --> 00:56:30.263

<v Justin>income source for us. And like, everyone's talking about audience growth.

00:56:30.403 --> 00:56:32.223

<v Justin>Like, can we have some more talks about sponsorships here?

00:56:32.483 --> 00:56:36.303

<v Justin>And so for a decade, I just kept hoping someone else would create this event.

00:56:37.203 --> 00:56:41.023

<v Justin>And so eventually I was just like, well, I guess it's me. And so So I created

00:56:41.023 --> 00:56:45.183

<v Justin>this event where there's no keynotes, there's no workshops, there's no panels.

00:56:45.523 --> 00:56:49.563

<v Justin>I'm basically taking you through my eight-step sponsorship wheel framework that

00:56:49.563 --> 00:56:53.483

<v Justin>I talk about in my book, Sponsor Magnet, and you play games to actually learn

00:56:53.483 --> 00:56:54.403

<v Justin>and master the concepts.

00:56:54.543 --> 00:57:00.123

<v Justin>So the pitch game, the negotiate game, the contract game, and there's actually finalists.

00:57:00.243 --> 00:57:03.683

<v Justin>So you get advanced to something called the sponsor tank, where you pitch a

00:57:03.683 --> 00:57:08.523

<v Justin>panelist of real brand partnership managers who will roast your pitch,

00:57:08.623 --> 00:57:12.683

<v Justin>basically. So, and there was a grand prize winner, Molly, big shout out to her.

00:57:12.843 --> 00:57:16.043

<v Justin>She won five grand in cash plus, yeah, plus a bunch of other amazing prizes.

00:57:16.183 --> 00:57:17.503

<v Justin>But yeah, it was, it was...

00:57:18.149 --> 00:57:22.449

<v Justin>This is so cheesy to say, but it was like seriously life-changing for me and everyone who attended.

00:57:22.689 --> 00:57:26.989

<v Katie>I mean, I wish we had found out about it a little bit earlier so we'd been able to attend.

00:57:27.109 --> 00:57:30.909

<v Katie>But yeah, I mean, even the video on the other side that you shared,

00:57:31.409 --> 00:57:34.409

<v Katie>like, yeah, it just looks like it was an absolutely incredible event.

00:57:34.589 --> 00:57:37.549

<v Katie>And again, like I also am someone that goes to a lot of these events.

00:57:37.549 --> 00:57:42.229

<v Katie>And there's, there is just something about like the act of being able to actually

00:57:42.229 --> 00:57:47.209

<v Katie>work through it together with other like-minded people that goes such like,

00:57:47.349 --> 00:57:50.529

<v Katie>it goes so far because there's nothing worse than getting home from some of

00:57:50.529 --> 00:57:55.849

<v Katie>these events with like a giant notebook and being like, well, like, what do I do now?

00:57:55.929 --> 00:57:59.489

<v Katie>Like, where do I even start? What action items do I take?

00:57:59.689 --> 00:58:03.509

<v Katie>It's such a different feeling than when you've, you know, gone to an event like

00:58:03.509 --> 00:58:05.969

<v Katie>this. I'm sure Molly on the other side is just like, wow, checked all those

00:58:05.969 --> 00:58:07.529

<v Katie>boxes. It was like, I had.

00:58:07.529 --> 00:58:12.009

<v Justin>You know, the craziest part, the craziest part is we had a, a bias to action

00:58:12.009 --> 00:58:13.069

<v Justin>in everything that we did.

00:58:13.189 --> 00:58:15.529

<v Justin>And so like after the pitch game, which was, which was game one,

00:58:16.009 --> 00:58:18.629

<v Justin>literally people were like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to hit send on this pitch.

00:58:18.749 --> 00:58:23.789

<v Justin>Cause people were designing pitches and literally people heard back from the brand at the event.

00:58:24.569 --> 00:58:28.049

<v Justin>And we were able to workshop, you know, like live basically.

00:58:28.049 --> 00:58:33.269

<v Justin>And a bunch of people left the event with brand deals. Like it was insane. It was crazy.

00:58:33.569 --> 00:58:35.229

<v Justin>Yeah. It was, it was pretty dope.

00:58:35.229 --> 00:58:39.209

<v Katie>Well, congratulations. That is just downright awesome. I hope everyone checks it out.

00:58:39.549 --> 00:58:42.469

<v Katie>Paul dropped in sponsorgames.com. You can get on the wait list and find out

00:58:42.469 --> 00:58:43.709

<v Katie>about next year's event.

00:58:43.989 --> 00:58:48.349

<v Katie>And then you have an email list. Where else can people connect with you?

00:58:49.609 --> 00:58:52.649

<v Justin>Well, okay, I'm going to full disclosure here.

00:58:53.069 --> 00:58:56.569

<v Justin>As any good creator should, you should not provide multiple call to actions

00:58:56.569 --> 00:58:58.789

<v Justin>like I'm doing right now. Like definitely only one.

00:59:00.009 --> 00:59:02.009

<v Justin>Sponsormagnet.com. That's the only place you should go. But yeah,

00:59:02.089 --> 00:59:07.309

<v Justin>I do have an email list as well where I actually send you sponsorship opportunities every week for free.

00:59:07.529 --> 00:59:10.389

<v Justin>So yeah, that one is creatorwizard.com slash join.

00:59:10.609 --> 00:59:15.349

<v Katie>I love it. Thank you so, so much. I am sure I'll be able to somehow trick you

00:59:15.349 --> 00:59:19.629

<v Katie>into coming on to more Ecamm events and to be involved more with our community

00:59:19.629 --> 00:59:24.189

<v Katie>because I just think what you are sharing with people is just so incredibly valuable. And I-

00:59:24.649 --> 00:59:27.929

<v Katie>honestly learn a ton just even by chatting with you and getting to spend time

00:59:27.929 --> 00:59:30.789

<v Katie>with you. So I appreciate it personally. Thank you, Justin.

00:59:31.129 --> 00:59:32.809

<v Justin>I appreciate you so much, Katie. Thanks for having me.

00:59:32.949 --> 00:59:37.149

<v Katie>Of course. And thanks to all of our Ecamm fam. We will be back next week.

00:59:37.269 --> 00:59:41.629

<v Katie>We're kind of on a kick of talking a little bit about these kinds of topics.

00:59:41.709 --> 00:59:44.889

<v Katie>So we're going from sponsorship to podcast publicity.

00:59:45.089 --> 00:59:48.489

<v Katie>So if you're like, hey, I would like to get more out there into the world and

00:59:48.489 --> 00:59:53.089

<v Katie>I want to be in front of more podcasts, definitely check out next week's episode.

00:59:53.089 --> 00:59:57.309

<v Katie>And then we are doing a media kit workshop. So if you're like,

00:59:57.549 --> 01:00:02.229

<v Katie>okay, Justin has sold me, but how the heck do I like lay all this stuff out?

01:00:02.649 --> 01:00:06.329

<v Katie>Make sure that you're subscribed to our Ecamm emails and we will send you information

01:00:06.329 --> 01:00:09.929

<v Katie>on how you can sign up for that free workshop so that we can all have media

01:00:09.929 --> 01:00:13.389

<v Katie>kits so that when you all reach out to me, you'll do it super professionally

01:00:13.389 --> 01:00:17.569

<v Katie>and I'll be blown away with everything that you have to say and to share.

01:00:17.769 --> 01:00:21.569

<v Katie>So thank you so much for joining us. And because Aiden is listening,

01:00:21.569 --> 01:00:26.709

<v Katie>We need to end our episode first with our sponsors, and then we're going to do our special ending.

01:00:26.889 --> 01:00:29.729

<v Katie>So here, if you want to check out everything you need to know about the podcast,

01:00:29.869 --> 01:00:32.669

<v Katie>swing on over to flow.ecam.com.

01:00:32.809 --> 01:00:37.489

<v Katie>This episode is recorded live and will release across all the different podcast

01:00:37.489 --> 01:00:40.789

<v Katie>players in YouTube next Tuesday.

01:00:41.549 --> 01:00:45.789

<v Katie>And huge, huge, huge thank you to our sponsor for this episode,

01:00:45.989 --> 01:00:49.549

<v Katie>Cap Show, which is just an absolutely incredible tool.

01:00:49.549 --> 01:00:55.029

<v Katie>It is like a team of AI robots that take all of your human video incredible

01:00:55.029 --> 01:00:58.229

<v Katie>content and help you to get it into different formats.

01:00:58.509 --> 01:01:02.509

<v Katie>It will help your customers and followers and friends and fanatics,

01:01:02.569 --> 01:01:08.929

<v Katie>whether it's a blog post or an email or social posts or even YouTube titles and descriptions.

01:01:08.929 --> 01:01:12.549

<v Katie>It takes all of that great content that you're recording in Ecamm and helps

01:01:12.549 --> 01:01:14.109

<v Katie>you get it out there in front of the whole world.

01:01:14.229 --> 01:01:16.529

<v Katie>So Capshow.com to learn more about them.

01:01:17.309 --> 01:01:22.289

<v Katie>All right, Justin, are you ready? We always end our show by saying flow riders

01:01:22.289 --> 01:01:24.869

<v Katie>out. We'll see you next week.

01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:48.133

<v Music>