The Flow: Episode 102 - Controversial Podcasting Opinions & Debunking Myths

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<v Music>

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<v Doc>High Flow Riders! Welcome to the flow. I am your co-host Doug Rock,

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<v Doc>along with my awesome co-host.

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<v Katie>Hey everyone, it's Katie.

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<v Doc>102 episodes later. It's still funny to me.

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<v Katie>Slight regrets that that was my intro, but that's okay. It's okay.

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<v Doc>What are we talking about today?

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<v Katie>All right. Well, I thought in this episode we would break down the quote-unquote

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<v Katie>controversial podcasting questions and topics.

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<v Katie>So we are busting myths, and we're talking controversies, and we're hopefully

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<v Katie>answering a bunch of your questions along the way. We have probably,

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<v Katie>just full disclosure, we have probably way too much content for this episode.

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<v Katie>So what we're going to do is we're going to take it as high level as we can

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<v Katie>with this episode, and then we will likely dive deeper into these topics so

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<v Katie>that they can each have their own episode in the future.

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<v Katie>But work with us here, because we're going to go quickly through a whole bunch

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<v Katie>of information that hopefully is really helpful for everyone.

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<v Doc>Yeah well all right i think we should jump to the first straight contra controversy

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<v Doc>that's the word let's go to the first let's talk about controversies yes all

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<v Katie>Right well the first one on our list is is podcast seo all right so all about

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<v Katie>podcast seo and the the the question of the controversy is how relevant is it

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<v Katie>does it actually make a big difference in discovery do people really care like

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<v Katie>how much time should we all be focusing on this.

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<v Doc>Okay this is a very good question the

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<v Doc>first and first and first and first thing to know about seo is it has always

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<v Doc>been a cat and mouse game right and this is because i i am a factual factual

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<v Doc>speaking person So if anybody's feelings get hurt, it's your problem. Let them.

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<v Doc>We've always tried to find a way to gain the system.

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<v Doc>Now, we have all kind of weird word for us. We like to make ourselves feel better with optimizing.

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<v Doc>I mean, that's what the O is for, actually.

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<v Doc>We have all kind of excuses. But what you're really trying to do is do things

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<v Doc>in your content that would make it easily found via search engine that you didn't

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<v Doc>own, somebody else owned.

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<v Doc>And the search engine's job is to deliver things to people that they're looking for.

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<v Doc>Now, it is easy to say that if I am in the market for these,

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<v Doc>and I'm not going to call what they are for the simple reason that that's part

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<v Doc>of my talk later, so hold that thought.

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<v Doc>But if I'm in the market for these, I'm going to type that into the search engine

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<v Doc>and I'm going to get results now.

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<v Doc>For reality is for all intents and purposes, the very first thing that should show up is Raymond.

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<v Doc>Raymond's abandoned should be the first person to show up, but it's not some other thing shows up.

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<v Doc>And if, if Katie and Jill had an eporium in Massachusetts somewhere,

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<v Doc>because they're closer to you and they, because they're authorized dealer,

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<v Doc>they were the Ray-Ban eporium of the seaside or whatever, sea coast,

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<v Doc>I forgot what you guys called the word.

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<v Katie>Seacoast, come on.

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<v Doc>Seacoast, okay, I'm right. We're seaside, you guys are seaside.

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<v Doc>It's the same thing. See, there you go. This is again, this is what I'm saying, right?

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<v Doc>East Coast is Seacoast. Where I live is seaside, right?

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<v Doc>It ain't even a damn sea. It's the ocean, fam. Ain't no sea of Honolulu.

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<v Doc>It's the ocean, but we still call it seaside.

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<v Doc>Anyway, because of optimization, I could make that cover first, right?

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<v Doc>So in a way, you already were trying to inject yourself in the position over

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<v Doc>top of the actual brand that people just needed to go to the brand first to

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<v Doc>figure out what they wanted.

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<v Doc>And then they would go, where can I get this locally?

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<v Doc>But that's not how it works because of optimization, right? So we've been cheating from day one.

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<v Doc>And now that things are changing, people are mad or frustrated or upset or telling everybody whatever.

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<v Doc>And so, yeah, it kind of matters because it helps get you in the front of the viewers.

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<v Doc>But it's like, You're that person at the speed dating, jumping up and down,

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<v Doc>going, everybody pick me. Somebody pick me. Please pick me. It's a little desperate.

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<v Doc>So the owners of the search engine have been working on getting the best possible

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<v Doc>information to the person, not the person who's the most skillful at jumping

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<v Doc>up and down and screaming like a maniac.

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<v Doc>And so that cat and mouse game has been going since day one.

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<v Doc>I used to be friends with a dude named Matt Cutts and his job was to block all

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<v Doc>the SEO tricks, putting all the words in the bottom of your web page and clear.

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<v Doc>No. As soon as they figured it out, cancel that, cancel that.

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<v Doc>So anyway, the modern SEO is GEO, is generative engine optimization.

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<v Doc>So they're reading your content.

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<v Doc>They're getting the most relevant information from your content and they're using that to weigh.

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<v Doc>And so all of the people who have SEO tricks is pretty much going out the window anyway.

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<v Doc>I personally would do the baseline best practices, but I wouldn't spend a lot

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<v Doc>of time tweaking or chasing keyword optimization or whatever,

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<v Doc>because truth of the matter is, that's not how the algo works no more.

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<v Doc>The algo is dope. Now, it can find, if you're good, it will find you.

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<v Doc>If you're not good, you're finally going to get sold out. Thank goodness.

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<v Katie>Yeah, the things to really keep in mind are naming things, filling out the information

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<v Katie>as clearly and as detailed as is relevant to the content you're creating.

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<v Katie>Stop making anything that's cutesy. So name things as they are.

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<v Katie>I'm talking to myself as much as all of you.

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<v Katie>So your episode titles, your descriptions, those matter. The name of your show,

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<v Katie>what it is, that matters.

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<v Katie>Having really good show notes and transcripts. So having like having that copy in the right places.

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<v Katie>So just filling out those fields. But as Doc said, you don't need to overthink

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<v Katie>all of the games and the tricks and the things to try to rank higher.

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<v Katie>You just need to be clear and honest about what your content is about and fill

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<v Katie>that information out as detailed as is relevant.

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<v Katie>So like don't go overboard and fill out every single detail about every single thing.

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<v Katie>That's overkill. but have enough information that if someone was to use a voice search tool, right,

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<v Katie>like a name or an S name tool, if they were to use one of those kinds of tools

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<v Katie>out there, right, to look for your show or to look for the content,

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<v Katie>would the content and the copy that you have around your video and around your

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<v Katie>podcast episode, would that help them to find it, right?

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<v Katie>Would that help them to be able to pick up that episode.

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<v Katie>So just be thinking about it. Just keep it top of mind and just be detailed

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<v Katie>with what information you're putting in. It's a best practice anyway.

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<v Katie>And there's so many amazing AI tools out there right now that make this process seconds.

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<v Katie>It takes seconds. You're like, this is what my episode is about.

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<v Katie>Please write me detailed show notes. This is what my episode is going to be about.

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<v Katie>Please give me a great title suggestion. There's 8 million plus tools out there

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<v Katie>right now that will do this really easily.

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<v Katie>So keep it in mind so that this controversy or controversy, controversy,

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<v Katie>how are you pronouncing it, Doc? You had a fun pronunciation.

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<v Doc>Controversy.

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<v Katie>Controversy. All right. This controversy about podcast SEO is that it's an ever-changing thing.

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<v Katie>And the important thing to do is to just make sure that you're being like open

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<v Katie>and honest, not trying to game the system because the system is always changing

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<v Katie>and just filling out the fields.

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<v Katie>Fill out the fields with the proper info. That's all you have to do.

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<v Doc>I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm laughing at Paul because Paul said YouTube has gone

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<v Doc>crazy. Another Paul. We have one more Paul to add to our six pack of Pauls now.

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<v Doc>Oh, so many Pauls. It says YouTube has gone crazy. It's been 15 years and I

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<v Doc>still haven't figured out. So my question to Paul is like, Paul,

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<v Doc>are you married? It's the same thing.

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<v Doc>Like I got 25 years in. I have no idea what she's talking about. So...

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<v Doc>Don't sweat it, Paul. It still can be good, even though I have no clue what

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<v Doc>she's talking about half the time. I just nodded.

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<v Katie>The cool thing, too, about it is, to keep in mind, it's updatable.

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<v Katie>So we've been talking a lot over the last little bit about thumbnails and graphics and all of this.

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<v Katie>And it's all updatable. If you go back to an older episode and you realize that

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<v Katie>the title wasn't as obvious as it could have been, or,

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<v Katie>you know, you were missing some like relevant links that you wanted to include

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<v Katie>in your show notes or whatever, like go back in and update it.

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<v Doc>Yes. Yeah.

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<v Katie>There's no, like, these things are always changing and an old episode can be

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<v Katie>pulled into, you know, into YouTube or into Google or into these different places

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<v Katie>as easily as a new episode.

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<v Katie>So feel free to go back through and take a look and read it and ask yourself,

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<v Katie>like, does this actually tell people what this episode is about?

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<v Katie>Does this title actually make someone want to click through and watch or listen to this episode?

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<v Katie>So it's worth giving thought to, but not overthinking it.

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<v Doc>You mentioned something really clear just now. It is always updating.

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<v Doc>A week ago, a legit a week ago, if you asked me this question,

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<v Doc>I would have been like, hell yeah, SEO is super important.

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<v Doc>I've been saying it for like the last year and a half. I've been fighting it.

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<v Doc>But there was an outgo update in like three or four of the different platforms recently.

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<v Doc>And it's not that it's not important. It's just that its impact has changed a little bit.

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<v Doc>Yeah. Because, here you go. I just said it. AI.

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<v Doc>So here's what AI can do now. All your lying doesn't work because AI can actually

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<v Doc>see the video. It can hear the video.

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<v Doc>And it's one thing that we've always had transcripts. So it can always hear

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<v Doc>the video. It's been hearing the video since probably like 2012.

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<v Doc>But it can see the video now. We have visual AI.

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<v Doc>If I were to slap on these bad boys and say, hey, what's her name, Mary? What do you see?

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<v Doc>She gonna be like, I see a LG 32-inch monitor. I see a Elgato teleprompter.

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<v Doc>I see a Shure SM7E. Like she knows exactly what she's looking at.

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<v Doc>And so now these guys have invested over the last couple of years,

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<v Doc>where GEO is coming from.

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<v Doc>They are looking at the picture. So they're looking at the picture.

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<v Doc>If Tommy is a person who sells athletic surfaces for colleges,

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<v Doc>but in his video, he's playing piano or bongos with a beat neck outfit.

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<v Doc>Hey, you need a new basketball floor, daddy. Oh, you confuse the hell out of the video.

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<v Doc>So the search won't won't find him because you're trying to be too cute.

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<v Doc>So this thing got me tripping so much that

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<v Doc>because i'm constantly talking about youtube i'm even thinking about

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<v Doc>pulling down my spectrum analyzer because i don't want

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<v Doc>my spectrum analyzer or my star wars things back there

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<v Doc>which are part of my personality i don't want them

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<v Doc>to confuse the video so i have to find a way to rearrange it or

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<v Doc>make sure that what i'm saying in my video sort of

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<v Doc>matches that so that they can link up so luckily i do talk

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<v Doc>about studio gear a lot so i just might changed my background

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<v Doc>to more studio gear but yeah like it can see the video now so those people that

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<v Doc>come on and play an instrument while they talk about something else they're

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<v Doc>actually confusing their search results because they're thinking that you're

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<v Doc>teaching lessons yeah unless you're very good at your hook point in conversation

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<v Doc>so it's changing and you're right about i

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<v Katie>Think that i think the new game to this system is is that if you're just again

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<v Katie>like if you're just as clear as you possibly can be visually in what you say

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<v Katie>and in the copy that surrounds your content,

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<v Katie>you're always going to win because the goal of the algorithm is to get your

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<v Katie>content into the hands of the right people so that they consume it and then

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<v Katie>they consume more content, right? That's the goal of any algorithm.

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<v Katie>So if you are checking those boxes, you need to serve the people so the algorithm

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<v Katie>can serve your content to the right people.

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<v Katie>So continue to do that and you will be fine.

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<v Katie>All right, let's swing to two. All right. What's controversy number two, Doc?

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<v Doc>Why video podcasters should stop worrying about Apple podcast rankings.

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<v Katie>Yeah, rankings, right? People ask about rankings all the time.

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<v Katie>They're like, what are your download numbers?

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<v Katie>Am I ranking well? How do top podcasts rank? All of the ranking and all this

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<v Katie>stuff. It was really fascinating to read because this has also been a space

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<v Katie>where things are changing really, really quickly.

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<v Katie>And Doc is going to love sharing all this information from this column. But so...

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<v Katie>Apple Podcasts used to be the absolute place to be for discoverability,

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<v Katie>right? Like that was the place that you wanted to be. That was the podcasting spot.

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<v Katie>It's not anymore. It's becoming less and less and less relevant.

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<v Katie>Not to say you shouldn't be there. You should still be in all the places where

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<v Katie>podcast getting is got, as Doug would say.

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<v Katie>But discovery and rankings and like how your podcast gets out there,

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<v Katie>as we just talked about, is quickly changing, right?

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<v Katie>So YouTube is number one now, like your social media and how we are sharing

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<v Katie>content clips and, you know, pieces of content is out there.

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<v Katie>And podcast rankings are like, at this point, really just a vanity metric.

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<v Katie>Like they're not doing anything for you.

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<v Katie>It doesn't actually equal growth at all, right?

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<v Doc>So part of that has to do with, and this is why I feel like so many of the audio

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<v Doc>people are having a panic mode right now.

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<v Doc>Is they are a lot of people, not just audio people, but the same thing with YouTube in general.

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<v Doc>A lot of people are banking on their advertisements as their money game.

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<v Doc>And the problem is what that does, and these are the big guys,

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<v Doc>and they're always talking about it and they're always complaining about it.

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<v Doc>First of all, you get paid to have a conversation with your friend.

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<v Doc>Let's be real. Let's be real.

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<v Doc>Let's get gracious, gratitatious, gratitudinous, whatever.

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<v Doc>Get one of those. feel good about what you're doing feel good

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<v Doc>about what you're doing feel blessed right and then

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<v Doc>what happens is download metrics used

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<v Doc>to be how you would tell an advertiser like ecamm

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<v Doc>for instance how many downloads you get so that we can sponsor your show okay

00:14:58.803 --> 00:15:02.783

<v Doc>you have several shows that we sponsor and they send us metrics they send us

00:15:02.783 --> 00:15:05.823

<v Doc>things like that but you know what we don't care about the download numbers

00:15:05.823 --> 00:15:10.383

<v Doc>you know what really matters to us is when then they get into caleb's thing.

00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.980

<v Doc>And Caleb sends them a couple of emails and then, you know what?

00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:15.140

<v Doc>I'm going to get Ecamm Pro.

00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:21.900

<v Doc>We can see what exact signups came from Twit or RelayFM or, you know,

00:15:22.040 --> 00:15:23.840

<v Doc>Uncensored, you know, shows that we sponsor.

00:15:24.680 --> 00:15:28.460

<v Doc>That's the only one that really matters to us. But to them, they're still at

00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:32.220

<v Doc>every conference talking about download numbers. And here's why download numbers are false.

00:15:32.540 --> 00:15:36.420

<v Doc>I am Doc Rock. I am a freaking nerd.

00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:40.420

<v Doc>Anyone want to take a guess as to how many Apple devices I have?

00:15:40.420 --> 00:15:41.740

<v Doc>I just want you to guess right now.

00:15:41.900 --> 00:15:45.080

<v Doc>And I'm going to tell you something that's going to mess your head up.

00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:48.020

<v Doc>I have two unopened boxes on the table right now.

00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:49.760

<v Katie>22.

00:15:50.900 --> 00:15:56.020

<v Doc>Close. Yeah, it's about correct. Dang, that is legit.

00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:59.840

<v Doc>Not counting those two because technically those are Ken and Glenn's. Okay, 20.

00:16:00.780 --> 00:16:04.100

<v Doc>It's about 22. too uh um so

00:16:04.100 --> 00:16:07.200

<v Doc>in that of the phones and the

00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.100

<v Doc>ipads and the computers they all have apple

00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:14.620

<v Doc>podcasts on it and they are syncable so they

00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:17.740

<v Doc>are if you put up an episode of you

00:16:17.740 --> 00:16:20.580

<v Doc>know kenny and kenny and k uh kathy i can't

00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:23.960

<v Doc>speak their names them pod kids if

00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.500

<v Doc>i put up their their pop culture kids podcast they get

00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:32.100

<v Doc>20 something downloads from me you understand

00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:37.560

<v Doc>you're welcome i might i might listen to it once yeah but they got they get

00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:42.620

<v Doc>credit for 20 something downloads because i am synchronized on some of those

00:16:42.620 --> 00:16:50.500

<v Doc>devices i have apple podcast i have youtube podcast i have castro and overcast

00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:53.900

<v Doc>Because Castro works good in the car with CarPlay.

00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:59.520

<v Doc>Overcast works better in the truck with CarPlay. Apple Podcast works on all of the Apple TVs.

00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.020

<v Doc>You know, so the numbers will always BS.

00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.440

<v Doc>It's because I come from media, bro. I come from newspaper. Newspaper would

00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.980

<v Doc>tell us every day, we have a circulation of 100,000.

00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:13.560

<v Doc>I'm like, bro, there's not a circulation of 100,000 in Honolulu area,

00:17:13.740 --> 00:17:14.800

<v Doc>bro. It just doesn't match.

00:17:15.120 --> 00:17:19.500

<v Doc>But what they were counting on is when you go, when I went to the Orto yesterday,

00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.260

<v Doc>the star bulletin is upside down on the table.

00:17:22.300 --> 00:17:26.640

<v Doc>So that back page ad for Lex Brody's Tire Company was seen by me. They're counting that.

00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.600

<v Doc>It's like, no, that doesn't count. It doesn't count.

00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:34.220

<v Doc>So yeah, download numbers are dumb. It really does not matter.

00:17:34.540 --> 00:17:40.240

<v Doc>And going back to your point about sort of the SEO and discovery and situational things.

00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:47.160

<v Doc>Now, you yourself, and I'm curious if you have you ever found the podcast by searching

00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:53.140

<v Doc>or most of your podcast recommendations recommended by a friend or a family,

00:17:53.340 --> 00:17:56.800

<v Doc>or you hear an ad, or you listen to a guest on another show and you go,

00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:00.740

<v Doc>dang, I really like, I really, really like Tommy. Let me go listen to his show.

00:18:01.688 --> 00:18:06.408

<v Katie>Yeah, so I definitely check the box on probably all of those.

00:18:06.568 --> 00:18:10.588

<v Katie>So the podcasts I listen to are either ones that were recommended from a friend

00:18:10.588 --> 00:18:11.748

<v Katie>or from another podcast.

00:18:11.928 --> 00:18:17.428

<v Katie>Either they said it or the new podcast I'm listening to were guests on a podcast I already love.

00:18:17.588 --> 00:18:22.708

<v Katie>And then I might search for the name of the podcast because I now am looking for it.

00:18:22.848 --> 00:18:29.448

<v Katie>I definitely scroll through a ton of TikTok and Instagram Reels.

00:18:29.448 --> 00:18:33.288

<v Katie>So if there's like podcast clips that catch my attention, I definitely have

00:18:33.288 --> 00:18:36.888

<v Katie>found a couple of podcasts from seeing clips that I thought were funny or shareable.

00:18:36.988 --> 00:18:39.908

<v Katie>And I was like, oh, this is actually a podcast. I'm going to go back and find

00:18:39.908 --> 00:18:40.888

<v Katie>out more about the podcast.

00:18:41.268 --> 00:18:45.968

<v Katie>I these days listen, listen when I'm listening to podcasts, I listen actually

00:18:45.968 --> 00:18:53.208

<v Katie>most in Amazon music because they in many cases have ad free podcasts or I'm

00:18:53.208 --> 00:18:56.048

<v Katie>listening in YouTube music because again, it's ad free.

00:18:56.048 --> 00:19:03.008

<v Katie>So there's like my listening and viewing of podcasts also changes as I'm sure many people do.

00:19:03.148 --> 00:19:06.088

<v Katie>Like there's different reasons why, right? I'm following those creators across

00:19:06.088 --> 00:19:07.268

<v Katie>a number of different places.

00:19:07.548 --> 00:19:11.808

<v Doc>So yeah, it is interesting. But in the grand scheme of things,

00:19:11.868 --> 00:19:16.948

<v Doc>and I think this is for most people in the BMAT, right? That's a behavior model.

00:19:17.288 --> 00:19:22.948

<v Doc>The trigger in the T is normally not, let me sit down at Google and search for

00:19:22.948 --> 00:19:24.788

<v Doc>podcasts. It doesn't work.

00:19:24.988 --> 00:19:29.208

<v Doc>It's not a thing. It's not a thing. So people are busting their gut over the

00:19:29.208 --> 00:19:32.528

<v Doc>wrong way. That's not how people are getting in. Sorry.

00:19:33.128 --> 00:19:35.228

<v Doc>I won't go into BMAT. It's a

00:19:35.228 --> 00:19:39.108

<v Doc>longer conversation, but you can Google BJ Falk. That's how you got to do.

00:19:40.448 --> 00:19:47.488

<v Doc>And it's a situation where I think so many people, and when it comes to business

00:19:47.488 --> 00:19:52.828

<v Doc>in general, are often harping at the wrong thing.

00:19:52.828 --> 00:19:56.408

<v Doc>Like they're trying to figure, you know, like, this sounds like a great thing

00:19:56.408 --> 00:19:57.468

<v Doc>we should market right now.

00:19:57.608 --> 00:20:00.988

<v Doc>And it's like, yes, but if our marketing goal, we do this, if our marketing

00:20:00.988 --> 00:20:04.768

<v Doc>goal is to attract new bodies, it's a different conversation.

00:20:05.268 --> 00:20:09.648

<v Doc>It's not the same conversation as let's bless up the bodies we already have, which we do.

00:20:09.848 --> 00:20:14.248

<v Doc>Right. So we have to do both. And that's the struggle of any good business is

00:20:14.248 --> 00:20:19.048

<v Doc>customer retention, loyalty, you know, avocations, et cetera,

00:20:19.388 --> 00:20:23.648

<v Doc>and also attracting new people. Cause you can make your, your old people happy as long as you want.

00:20:23.768 --> 00:20:26.708

<v Doc>And I don't mean, Paul, I mean like regular old people, like people who already

00:20:26.708 --> 00:20:29.828

<v Doc>subscribed, but you also have to attract new subscribers. If you don't,

00:20:29.828 --> 00:20:30.688

<v Doc>you're going to be short-lived.

00:20:30.968 --> 00:20:37.128

<v Doc>And like Japan as a whole country is having this problem because they are having

00:20:37.128 --> 00:20:43.228

<v Doc>a massive population drain right now because they spent so long telling people what the marriages,

00:20:43.548 --> 00:20:47.368

<v Doc>the merits of this particular type of marriage is not sustainable.

00:20:47.368 --> 00:20:51.128

<v Doc>And now they don't have enough people to keep the country going.

00:20:51.368 --> 00:20:54.748

<v Doc>Their economy is suffering because people ain't having children's.

00:20:55.477 --> 00:20:59.037

<v Doc>How crazy is that? So you got to be careful.

00:20:59.357 --> 00:21:02.557

<v Doc>We're going to listen. We're going to be in the same boat pretty soon because

00:21:02.557 --> 00:21:04.217

<v Doc>of the craziness that we're talking right now.

00:21:04.637 --> 00:21:09.417

<v Doc>We're going to be unable to keep up with our income generation because we're

00:21:09.417 --> 00:21:11.237

<v Doc>trying to scare people out of the country.

00:21:11.357 --> 00:21:14.477

<v Doc>That's not how you save money. That just doesn't work. It's been proven a thousand

00:21:14.477 --> 00:21:15.537

<v Doc>times throughout history.

00:21:15.837 --> 00:21:19.417

<v Doc>But, you know, go figure. Let's switch before I start tripping.

00:21:20.257 --> 00:21:24.257

<v Katie>Before we talk about political, let's. So here's what all of us should be focusing

00:21:24.257 --> 00:21:27.377

<v Katie>on. And there was a great question I'm going to answer at the same time from

00:21:27.377 --> 00:21:31.397

<v Katie>Paul, who's asking, if not Apple, then what? Is Spotify the next thing?

00:21:31.577 --> 00:21:37.017

<v Katie>So if not Apple, YouTube is the next thing, right? So if not Apple, YouTube.

00:21:37.437 --> 00:21:43.017

<v Katie>And thinking again through how people are finding and engaging with podcasts,

00:21:43.197 --> 00:21:47.317

<v Katie>right? So what you need to be paying attention to is your YouTube growth,

00:21:47.437 --> 00:21:49.717

<v Katie>right? Do you have your podcast out on YouTube?

00:21:50.077 --> 00:21:54.677

<v Katie>Is it discoverable there? Are you following all the YouTube best practices?

00:21:54.897 --> 00:21:59.517

<v Katie>Are you naming your show correctly? Do you have your show notes formatted correctly?

00:21:59.757 --> 00:22:02.877

<v Katie>Are you have engaging thumbnails to attract attention over on YouTube?

00:22:03.237 --> 00:22:08.097

<v Katie>YouTube is the place, right? Are you repurposing your content and sharing it

00:22:08.097 --> 00:22:12.057

<v Katie>across social media, right? I just said that I admitted to iScroll,

00:22:12.137 --> 00:22:15.737

<v Katie>and I'm sure many of you scroll across all these different platforms.

00:22:15.977 --> 00:22:20.217

<v Katie>Like, is your podcast, is your show and your content discoverable on these social

00:22:20.217 --> 00:22:22.517

<v Katie>platforms? If not, why not?

00:22:23.375 --> 00:22:26.795

<v Katie>And then the next question, the next thing to be focused on is what we just talked about, right?

00:22:26.955 --> 00:22:32.715

<v Katie>Like keeping, keeping all of your SEO and your content as honest and accurate

00:22:32.715 --> 00:22:36.295

<v Katie>and up to date as possible and going back and tweaking any of those older things.

00:22:36.475 --> 00:22:39.475

<v Katie>Don't overthink it. Don't try to game the system, but have relevant,

00:22:39.615 --> 00:22:41.055

<v Katie>helpful content and information.

00:22:41.895 --> 00:22:45.675

<v Katie>And then engaging with your audience, right? So it's like doing what we're doing right now.

00:22:45.815 --> 00:22:50.815

<v Katie>All the loyalty stuff that Doc just mentioned is all super, super relevant and

00:22:50.815 --> 00:22:55.815

<v Katie>continues to be more relevant as this landscape changes is what numbers are

00:22:55.815 --> 00:22:58.415

<v Katie>going to continue to matter to people are,

00:22:58.955 --> 00:23:04.035

<v Katie>okay, how many people actually show up week after week to your show and ask

00:23:04.035 --> 00:23:08.395

<v Katie>questions and engage with your content and take your recommendations and buy

00:23:08.395 --> 00:23:09.735

<v Katie>based on what you are saying.

00:23:09.895 --> 00:23:16.415

<v Katie>So all of this is hugely, hugely important to keep in mind and really where

00:23:16.415 --> 00:23:20.755

<v Katie>you should be focusing and spending your time rather than on your download numbers

00:23:20.755 --> 00:23:24.435

<v Katie>and all of those vanity metrics that aren't really relevant have never really

00:23:24.435 --> 00:23:28.355

<v Katie>been all that relevant and are going to be way less relevant as things continue

00:23:28.355 --> 00:23:29.435

<v Katie>to change going forward.

00:23:29.615 --> 00:23:32.855

<v Doc>Well, the relevancy came from people figured out they could make money telling

00:23:32.855 --> 00:23:34.535

<v Doc>people how to rank higher.

00:23:35.315 --> 00:23:37.555

<v Doc>And it's not saying that was a bad business because trust me,

00:23:37.735 --> 00:23:41.495

<v Doc>I've done it for clients. So no, it's not a thing. I just want to show you something

00:23:41.495 --> 00:23:42.695

<v Doc>Katie said about engagement.

00:23:42.855 --> 00:23:47.395

<v Doc>Look, this is so habitual for me that I don't even recognize I do it, but I know I do it. Okay.

00:23:47.655 --> 00:23:53.295

<v Doc>So I'm listening to Katie. I'm looking at the, the outline. I'm checking the comments.

00:23:53.455 --> 00:23:57.315

<v Doc>I am. Hi, Paul Turner. Paul Turner pops up. Darren Hood pops up, right?

00:23:57.715 --> 00:24:01.135

<v Doc>Tommy's my buddy. Tommy pops up. K-Walk's my buddy. K-Walk pops up.

00:24:01.435 --> 00:24:04.055

<v Doc>Saeed got jokes. Saeed is every show, right?

00:24:04.515 --> 00:24:07.935

<v Doc>You know what I do? Even though this is the recorded show, we normally used

00:24:07.935 --> 00:24:09.355

<v Doc>to save that kind of stuff for later.

00:24:10.195 --> 00:24:13.375

<v Doc>Paul's question was good. So I'm going to interact with Paul right away.

00:24:13.535 --> 00:24:16.735

<v Doc>Paul's brand new, but I'm going to say, what's up, Paul? Let me answer your thing.

00:24:17.235 --> 00:24:19.595

<v Doc>I see Darren pops in. We want to say what's up to Darren, right?

00:24:19.755 --> 00:24:21.755

<v Doc>But in a manner that I can work it into the show.

00:24:22.015 --> 00:24:24.795

<v Doc>So nothing wrong with what you did, Darren. Let's not get into it.

00:24:24.935 --> 00:24:25.915

<v Doc>Thank you for saying hello.

00:24:26.375 --> 00:24:31.835

<v Doc>But if you actually came back with a question, you're more likely to get recognized,

00:24:31.935 --> 00:24:33.075

<v Doc>especially if your question is good.

00:24:33.215 --> 00:24:36.215

<v Doc>Paul has had two, three good questions. I see bills popping in.

00:24:36.475 --> 00:24:40.215

<v Doc>That level of engagement is where the people are like, you know what?

00:24:40.215 --> 00:24:44.795

<v Doc>I go to tons of podcasts and tons of podcast tapings and I put questions and

00:24:44.795 --> 00:24:49.115

<v Doc>those people never answer me because they're so stuck in their show line. We have a show line.

00:24:49.662 --> 00:24:54.762

<v Doc>I'm really bad at these things. But what I'm really good at is recognizing people

00:24:54.762 --> 00:24:56.662

<v Doc>because I know what it feels like not to be recognized.

00:24:56.802 --> 00:25:00.862

<v Doc>When I was a nerd and I was trying to learn stuff, yo, those guys at the computer store were J-holes.

00:25:01.562 --> 00:25:04.902

<v Doc>But I figured it out on myself. I got smarter than all of them.

00:25:05.022 --> 00:25:06.302

<v Doc>Then I would go in them and tell them what's up.

00:25:06.542 --> 00:25:10.722

<v Doc>But, you know, back in the day, computer guys were very, very like gatekeepy.

00:25:11.082 --> 00:25:14.322

<v Doc>And I mean, way back in the day, I started in computers in like the early 80s.

00:25:14.322 --> 00:25:17.902

<v Doc>So I go out of my way to make sure I address people.

00:25:18.582 --> 00:25:22.042

<v Doc>That's the way my mama raised me. I'm not going to walk past you and not,

00:25:22.042 --> 00:25:25.502

<v Doc>you know, give the greetings. Like my grandma would slap the back of my head.

00:25:25.722 --> 00:25:30.282

<v Doc>So that's just something that you do. So to finish out Paul's question,

00:25:30.442 --> 00:25:33.142

<v Doc>but I just wanted to say that that level of engagement is what works.

00:25:33.242 --> 00:25:35.202

<v Doc>Now, don't sidetrack your whole show just saying, what's up,

00:25:35.282 --> 00:25:36.122

<v Doc>what's up, what's up, what's up.

00:25:36.202 --> 00:25:39.002

<v Doc>But if there's a valid point, like Paul has had great questions,

00:25:39.242 --> 00:25:41.862

<v Doc>then you go ahead and answer them if you can or tell them.

00:25:41.982 --> 00:25:44.642

<v Doc>We will get to that in the Q&A. don't leave them hanging so that

00:25:44.642 --> 00:25:47.602

<v Doc>way they'll stay around okay anyway to paul's point

00:25:47.602 --> 00:25:50.482

<v Doc>the youtube thing is so important and so

00:25:50.482 --> 00:25:53.482

<v Doc>many people are going to miss it because the old school people are still saying

00:25:53.482 --> 00:25:56.742

<v Doc>apple spotify apple spotify apple spotify because they know what's good they

00:25:56.742 --> 00:26:00.342

<v Doc>know that from the past and people hate change doesn't matter if you hate change

00:26:00.342 --> 00:26:04.622

<v Doc>it's inevitable okay summertime is way hotter than it ever was and we was the

00:26:04.622 --> 00:26:08.382

<v Doc>kids no matter what anybody say your body can feel the difference. Okay.

00:26:08.902 --> 00:26:14.462

<v Doc>So YouTube has just put out stats that says over, uh, over a billion hours of

00:26:14.462 --> 00:26:19.482

<v Doc>YouTube podcast is watch on televisions, not on your phones,

00:26:19.542 --> 00:26:22.582

<v Doc>not on the YouTube music app on televisions.

00:26:22.722 --> 00:26:27.982

<v Doc>Every TV sold in the United States in the last 10, 11, 12 years has a YouTube button on the remote.

00:26:28.582 --> 00:26:34.522

<v Doc>If you are ignoring YouTube podcasts, you are ignoring myriad,

00:26:34.742 --> 00:26:36.422

<v Doc>myriad, myriad growth opportunities.

00:26:36.662 --> 00:26:40.202

<v Doc>Now, one other thing that YouTube podcast does that the other players do not

00:26:40.202 --> 00:26:48.762

<v Doc>is at this moment in time for about 75% of the content, YouTube podcast has an automatic switch to

00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:07.719

<v Doc>So the YouTube is automatically translating all of what you're saying into the

00:27:07.719 --> 00:27:08.759

<v Doc>people's native language.

00:27:08.859 --> 00:27:12.279

<v Doc>So you can watch Katie and I in Portuguese. Sorry, Jill.

00:27:12.459 --> 00:27:16.019

<v Doc>I can't do that. I know you're up there, but Jill can do it.

00:27:16.159 --> 00:27:19.399

<v Doc>Jill can do the whole podcast in Portuguese. I can do it in Japanese and Korean.

00:27:19.959 --> 00:27:22.459

<v Doc>You're missing this opportunity because you're like, oh, Apple,

00:27:22.539 --> 00:27:23.439

<v Doc>Spotify, Apple, Spotify.

00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:28.379

<v Doc>Sorry. They are, they're getting their butt kicked and they don't know it yet

00:27:28.379 --> 00:27:32.479

<v Doc>because everybody is still stuck on RSS feeds and everybody's still stuck on

00:27:32.479 --> 00:27:35.299

<v Doc>RSS feeds because they think that's going to get them better advertisement.

00:27:35.879 --> 00:27:38.359

<v Doc>And yeah, it's just, it's not the thing.

00:27:39.739 --> 00:27:44.379

<v Doc>So, um, Bill, let me get to your question real fast.

00:27:45.019 --> 00:27:48.439

<v Doc>There's no should. You do whatever the hell you want. We do both.

00:27:48.439 --> 00:27:52.179

<v Doc>We do the edited show that comes out a week from now.

00:27:52.339 --> 00:27:56.079

<v Doc>So this show, Properly Louise, will be one week from now.

00:27:56.419 --> 00:28:00.859

<v Doc>But we also have the live because we'd like to be able to do what I just did

00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:02.119

<v Doc>for you. You have a question.

00:28:02.379 --> 00:28:04.879

<v Doc>You don't have a week. You want to know right now. You got stuff you need to

00:28:04.879 --> 00:28:07.679

<v Doc>do. So I want to answer you as soon as possible.

00:28:08.179 --> 00:28:11.859

<v Doc>And that's where, you know, the live taping to me, I think, is the best.

00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:15.739

<v Doc>And one advantage to leave in both is you're giving that SEO juice,

00:28:16.179 --> 00:28:21.039

<v Doc>that Google juice, Everything that I just said, everything Katie says is fed

00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.779

<v Doc>into the these guys are helpful.

00:28:24.139 --> 00:28:32.619

<v Doc>These guys are on subject and they are providing relevant new information or

00:28:32.619 --> 00:28:35.559

<v Doc>updated information or current information about these topics.

00:28:35.739 --> 00:28:38.079

<v Doc>So when you go to search for them, you're more likely to find us.

00:28:38.733 --> 00:28:44.073

<v Katie>Absolutely. And Bill, if it is helpful, so if someone is listening later,

00:28:44.153 --> 00:28:47.613

<v Katie>Bill was asking about how to structure everything on YouTube.

00:28:47.793 --> 00:28:50.253

<v Katie>Should it be live? Should it be recorded? Kind of all the details of it.

00:28:50.353 --> 00:28:54.353

<v Katie>We do have a completely free podcast course that you can check out.

00:28:54.493 --> 00:28:58.493

<v Katie>So Paul will drop the link into the chat and then it's also in the show notes

00:28:58.493 --> 00:29:01.173

<v Katie>and in the comments, I believe, of every one of these videos.

00:29:01.173 --> 00:29:03.153

<v Katie>But swing on over and sign up.

00:29:03.273 --> 00:29:07.593

<v Katie>It'll take you step-by-step exactly how to do what we do, what our process is,

00:29:07.713 --> 00:29:09.433

<v Katie>what our recommendations are, and everything in between.

00:29:09.673 --> 00:29:14.633

<v Katie>But yeah, you can find this podcast on YouTube, both as a live recording and

00:29:14.633 --> 00:29:16.373

<v Katie>as the finished recorded episode.

00:29:16.593 --> 00:29:22.353

<v Katie>And then you can find our edited audio episodes on Apple and Spotify and everywhere

00:29:22.353 --> 00:29:24.893

<v Katie>in between because we are playing in all of the places.

00:29:25.853 --> 00:29:30.333

<v Katie>Thank you. So ecam.tv slash free podcast course is where you can get the podcast

00:29:30.333 --> 00:29:32.233

<v Katie>course and we're constantly updating it.

00:29:32.333 --> 00:29:35.433

<v Katie>So feel free to jump in there and make any suggestions that you have.

00:29:35.753 --> 00:29:38.873

<v Katie>All right, we're jumping into the next one because we've got a bunch and I'm

00:29:38.873 --> 00:29:39.993

<v Katie>dedicated to getting through them.

00:29:40.793 --> 00:29:42.073

<v Katie>Thankfully, these are all related

00:29:42.073 --> 00:29:44.533

<v Katie>to each other, so they kind of build on each other, which is great.

00:29:45.213 --> 00:29:51.813

<v Katie>Okay, so we've already myth busted rankings, but the next big one on the list

00:29:51.813 --> 00:29:54.073

<v Katie>is monetization, right?

00:29:54.533 --> 00:29:58.053

<v Katie>How do I monetize? How do I get sponsors? How do I make money?

00:29:58.313 --> 00:30:01.393

<v Katie>How do I become a millionaire as a podcaster?

00:30:01.973 --> 00:30:07.473

<v Katie>It is, in many cases, the thing that people ask first, even though we would

00:30:07.473 --> 00:30:08.733

<v Katie>say that you probably shouldn't.

00:30:08.853 --> 00:30:13.173

<v Katie>And it's definitely at the back of every podcaster's mind to some level or another.

00:30:13.373 --> 00:30:16.273

<v Katie>Am I doing the right things to make the right amount of money?

00:30:16.453 --> 00:30:19.973

<v Katie>So let's break it down, Doc. What are the details here?

00:30:20.493 --> 00:30:24.153

<v Katie>Why are people actually struggling with monetization? What's the truth behind it?

00:30:24.861 --> 00:30:28.521

<v Doc>You know, honestly, this is going to always be the problem because I get,

00:30:28.521 --> 00:30:31.081

<v Doc>you know, desperate times lead to different measures.

00:30:31.801 --> 00:30:34.661

<v Doc>So many people get into it and they just see somebody else making it.

00:30:34.741 --> 00:30:35.961

<v Doc>So they think that they're going to make it.

00:30:36.081 --> 00:30:39.921

<v Doc>It's like I'm going to open a burger stand because McDonald's is good. First of all, it's not.

00:30:40.961 --> 00:30:44.941

<v Doc>But that's not the reason to open a burger stand. You open a burger stand because

00:30:44.941 --> 00:30:46.721

<v Doc>you love making burgers.

00:30:47.041 --> 00:30:50.701

<v Doc>If you don't, your burger stand will close within a year.

00:30:50.701 --> 00:30:54.781

<v Doc>So many restaurants open and

00:30:54.781 --> 00:30:58.141

<v Doc>close they're the best industry to pick on because they're so true but

00:30:58.141 --> 00:31:05.861

<v Doc>they open and close instantly okay so in the neighborhood coffee shops are banging

00:31:05.861 --> 00:31:11.541

<v Doc>because like you know market house market square bakehouse is freaking delicious

00:31:11.541 --> 00:31:16.721

<v Doc>so about 17 other people open coffee shops.

00:31:17.361 --> 00:31:21.501

<v Doc>Every time I come to the Berry, there's another coffee shop.

00:31:21.761 --> 00:31:25.701

<v Doc>But there's two that have been there for all of my four years.

00:31:26.181 --> 00:31:29.201

<v Doc>And that's Market Square Bakehouse.

00:31:29.721 --> 00:31:33.081

<v Doc>And the one that he comes whenever he feels like it. Oh my God.

00:31:33.581 --> 00:31:36.781

<v Doc>Wise House Coffee. Wise House. See, that name messes with me.

00:31:37.201 --> 00:31:44.921

<v Doc>But that coffee is good. Wise House Coffee is so strong, it rivals Cafe Boutello.

00:31:44.921 --> 00:31:46.241

<v Doc>Like it gets straight up in there.

00:31:46.421 --> 00:31:50.641

<v Doc>It's who, but everybody else come and gone, come and gone, come and gone,

00:31:50.701 --> 00:31:52.701

<v Doc>come and gone, come and gone. Same thing with breweries.

00:31:53.041 --> 00:31:56.241

<v Doc>There's like a couple of that stand and there's a whole bunch that come and

00:31:56.241 --> 00:31:57.761

<v Doc>go, come and go, come and go, come and go.

00:31:58.221 --> 00:32:04.621

<v Doc>Because when you see one place popping off, you like, Oh, if I make one of those, I can make money too.

00:32:05.141 --> 00:32:10.421

<v Doc>But you have got to have a hardcore love for creating that cafe.

00:32:11.161 --> 00:32:15.061

<v Doc>If you don't, you're not going to be able to match no matter how good it is,

00:32:15.121 --> 00:32:19.201

<v Doc>no matter how much prices you lower, no matter how it does require a thing.

00:32:19.861 --> 00:32:24.301

<v Doc>And so one of the biggest problems is everybody is so focused on the money.

00:32:24.521 --> 00:32:29.341

<v Doc>First, they structure their businesses in a way that is unsustainable and they normally get, um,

00:32:30.776 --> 00:32:35.476

<v Doc>The B word, which I can't stand. I was like, no, that doesn't count.

00:32:35.616 --> 00:32:39.696

<v Doc>You did that to yourself because you was chasing the wrong thing. And it's just hard.

00:32:39.916 --> 00:32:45.376

<v Doc>So if you are selling something and you use a podcast to attract attention to

00:32:45.376 --> 00:32:50.536

<v Doc>your product, as we are doing, that was probably going to work out a little bit better for you.

00:32:50.856 --> 00:32:55.536

<v Doc>Then I'm just going to make a podcast about whatever and hope I get paid.

00:32:56.056 --> 00:32:59.196

<v Doc>No, you can't. If you don't want to hope I get paid, then you're probably never going to get paid.

00:32:59.916 --> 00:33:02.656

<v Doc>If you go out and you deliver good information and you

00:33:02.656 --> 00:33:05.976

<v Doc>find something that people want and you are solving problems

00:33:05.976 --> 00:33:09.176

<v Doc>or providing vitamins you're

00:33:09.176 --> 00:33:12.436

<v Doc>solving solutions for growth or you're solving pain you will

00:33:12.436 --> 00:33:15.876

<v Doc>probably be able to monetize at some point so on etc and all

00:33:15.876 --> 00:33:19.596

<v Doc>of the strategy and all the other stuff that goes around is

00:33:19.596 --> 00:33:22.256

<v Doc>sort of second nature i think you worry about that once you

00:33:22.256 --> 00:33:25.336

<v Doc>actually start monetizing now you can sell merch right away

00:33:25.336 --> 00:33:28.336

<v Doc>you can do live events right away those

00:33:28.336 --> 00:33:31.296

<v Doc>things are monetizable but when i started my

00:33:31.296 --> 00:33:33.956

<v Doc>podcast uh a couple years back and it

00:33:33.956 --> 00:33:36.636

<v Doc>was on sort of on local topics i just

00:33:36.636 --> 00:33:40.516

<v Doc>went to my buddy who's an attorney and i'm like you're always looking for any

00:33:40.516 --> 00:33:43.916

<v Doc>place to put stuff and i see you put ads in the dumbest places i'm gonna start

00:33:43.916 --> 00:33:48.696

<v Doc>a podcast just in my friend group alone i can guarantee close to a thousand

00:33:48.696 --> 00:33:56.136

<v Doc>downloads and the podcast platform for the first two years is going to cost me 250 bucks a month

00:33:57.356 --> 00:34:00.376

<v Doc>Give me 300 bones and i'll put you as the sponsor of

00:34:00.376 --> 00:34:03.116

<v Doc>the show and he was like done we waste that on

00:34:03.116 --> 00:34:09.216

<v Doc>whiskey and i was like i knew it so that's monetized already like now i could

00:34:09.216 --> 00:34:13.916

<v Doc>just do the podcast because it the the real estate is paid for so you could

00:34:13.916 --> 00:34:20.856

<v Doc>do that but i mean the idea like yeah there's nobody coming to buy ads on the flow right now

00:34:21.504 --> 00:34:24.604

<v Doc>That's not the point, though. Our point is to teach people about this,

00:34:24.724 --> 00:34:26.764

<v Doc>that maybe they would fall in love with Ecamm.

00:34:26.944 --> 00:34:29.824

<v Doc>A whole bunch of people are going to watch the flow and download a competitor app.

00:34:30.224 --> 00:34:34.064

<v Doc>It's okay. That's not what we're here for. You know, we want to just get people

00:34:34.064 --> 00:34:37.864

<v Doc>in love with podcasting, because normally what happens is you go try a competitor

00:34:37.864 --> 00:34:41.164

<v Doc>app, and then you start saying swear words, and then you keep seeing us do cool

00:34:41.164 --> 00:34:43.404

<v Doc>stuff, and you go check out the Ecamm fam again, and then you're like,

00:34:43.524 --> 00:34:44.764

<v Doc>all right, damn it. And now you're in.

00:34:45.104 --> 00:34:47.304

<v Doc>And there's people in our group right now that have been there.

00:34:47.484 --> 00:34:49.784

<v Doc>They've seen all the Ecamm stuff. They tried something else because they thought

00:34:49.784 --> 00:34:52.964

<v Doc>they were saving money, and then they end up spending more money and came right back.

00:34:53.244 --> 00:34:56.884

<v Doc>So that's what you do it for. That was a long winded answer. I'm sorry.

00:34:57.584 --> 00:35:03.324

<v Katie>No, I think that's great. And so I asked this question to chat GPT as we were

00:35:03.324 --> 00:35:06.684

<v Katie>coming up with the ideas and the show notes for this episode.

00:35:06.944 --> 00:35:12.724

<v Katie>And so here's right from the AI robot overlords, right?

00:35:12.844 --> 00:35:18.184

<v Katie>So we are failing at this in many ways because we're not treating our podcast like a business.

00:35:18.544 --> 00:35:22.604

<v Katie>So if the goal of your podcast is that you want to make money with it,

00:35:23.064 --> 00:35:26.944

<v Katie>stop thinking about it of, I can get to this point and then I can monetize.

00:35:27.344 --> 00:35:32.284

<v Katie>Plan for how you want to make money with the podcast from the very start, right?

00:35:32.524 --> 00:35:36.724

<v Katie>Think about it as a business, as a content business, right? You need a clear

00:35:36.724 --> 00:35:39.684

<v Katie>strategy. You need, as Doc was just saying in his example, right?

00:35:39.924 --> 00:35:43.424

<v Katie>Think about who you know. Think about the spaces that you're in.

00:35:43.564 --> 00:35:48.424

<v Katie>Think about what value you are bringing and stop only thinking about,

00:35:48.724 --> 00:35:51.924

<v Katie>once I get to this point, then I'm going to get all these big sponsors.

00:35:52.184 --> 00:35:55.944

<v Katie>Sponsors are not where all of the money is. You need to figure out whether you're

00:35:55.944 --> 00:36:01.724

<v Katie>going to be selling products or services, whether or not you can partner with different businesses.

00:36:02.104 --> 00:36:08.404

<v Katie>And maybe making money for your podcast is that you're not paying anything for your podcast, right?

00:36:08.544 --> 00:36:12.424

<v Katie>Maybe that's your goal. And if that's the case, follow Doc's example and find

00:36:12.424 --> 00:36:17.164

<v Katie>those partners who are going to cover your costs, right? And end up making it.

00:36:17.714 --> 00:36:22.414

<v Katie>A win for everyone, right? And then the other thing that people really don't

00:36:22.414 --> 00:36:27.974

<v Katie>think about in this space as they're so kind of driven and thinking about money first, right,

00:36:28.134 --> 00:36:34.454

<v Katie>is that your podcast audience likely isn't and shouldn't be your only audience, right?

00:36:34.534 --> 00:36:38.934

<v Katie>So in our example, like we have all of you, the Flowriders who hang out with

00:36:38.934 --> 00:36:40.714

<v Katie>us and are here to learn about podcasting.

00:36:40.794 --> 00:36:45.034

<v Katie>We also have a ton of other Ecamm customers and potential customers that don't

00:36:45.034 --> 00:36:46.474

<v Katie>at all care about podcasting.

00:36:46.594 --> 00:36:51.254

<v Katie>They're into it for live streaming and video production and live events and

00:36:51.254 --> 00:36:53.934

<v Katie>Zoom and everything in between, right?

00:36:54.054 --> 00:36:59.054

<v Katie>So we have an audience outside of our podcast that we are able to use and kind

00:36:59.054 --> 00:37:00.774

<v Katie>of build things collaboratively with.

00:37:01.294 --> 00:37:08.614

<v Katie>And then the last thing here is, you really should be thinking about your audience itself, right?

00:37:08.714 --> 00:37:15.154

<v Katie>So if you're only into your podcast plan because you only want to make money

00:37:15.154 --> 00:37:18.914

<v Katie>and you're not thinking at all about your audience, that's not going to work, right?

00:37:18.954 --> 00:37:24.734

<v Katie>That's not a good strategy because your audience isn't there to only buy stuff, right?

00:37:24.814 --> 00:37:29.694

<v Katie>They might buy things if you're helping them and it's a relevance to them,

00:37:29.754 --> 00:37:32.074

<v Katie>but that's not the reason that they're there engaging and listening with you.

00:37:32.174 --> 00:37:37.394

<v Katie>They're there to learn something or to be entertained or to feel like they're

00:37:37.394 --> 00:37:39.414

<v Katie>part of a team or feel like they're part of the community.

00:37:39.634 --> 00:37:42.894

<v Katie>So there's a lot that goes into this monetization thing.

00:37:43.034 --> 00:37:48.134

<v Katie>And the truth, as Doc said, is that you're not, none of us are going to become millionaires.

00:37:48.534 --> 00:37:51.974

<v Katie>None of us are going to become millionaires overnight. You need to have a set

00:37:51.974 --> 00:37:55.974

<v Katie>plan for what you want to achieve and the steps that you need to take to get there.

00:37:55.974 --> 00:37:58.834

<v Katie>And you really need to be thinking about your audience first,

00:37:58.834 --> 00:38:03.854

<v Katie>because if you damage that relationship, you're not going to make any money off of this at all.

00:38:03.994 --> 00:38:07.714

<v Doc>A hundred percent. And that's part of the problem.

00:38:08.574 --> 00:38:12.094

<v Doc>Okay. There's a couple of shows that I really really love and

00:38:12.094 --> 00:38:16.074

<v Doc>they've gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and now

00:38:16.074 --> 00:38:18.794

<v Doc>when i'm in one of the

00:38:18.794 --> 00:38:26.334

<v Doc>cars i don't have the patreon feed connected to my podcast app and it was it

00:38:26.334 --> 00:38:29.474

<v Doc>for some reason it doesn't work and i'm not ready to erase the os and start

00:38:29.474 --> 00:38:36.414

<v Doc>again because i only use it once in a while um and when i hear the non-patreon feed

00:38:37.735 --> 00:38:42.375

<v Doc>It's like, and then, so the murderer came into the room and they left the biggest

00:38:42.375 --> 00:38:43.195

<v Doc>piece of everything. Yes.

00:38:43.355 --> 00:38:46.555

<v Doc>Hey, how are you having a hard time sleeping? Can you check out this mattress?

00:38:47.095 --> 00:38:53.275

<v Doc>And then, oh, would you like to save some money by switching to your car insurance on Geico?

00:38:53.715 --> 00:38:57.475

<v Doc>Oh, and by the way, these bras don't have wires underneath the bottom.

00:38:57.615 --> 00:39:00.235

<v Doc>So you should get these kinds of bras. And, oh, I've been putting this cream

00:39:00.235 --> 00:39:03.095

<v Doc>on my face and the hosts love every product.

00:39:03.915 --> 00:39:06.995

<v Doc>I'm like, fam, I'm not in your business.

00:39:06.995 --> 00:39:16.315

<v Doc>One of y'all don't wear bras and that's cool but like really like i'm just saying the the

00:39:17.095 --> 00:39:22.055

<v Doc>effervescence for some of these products doesn't match

00:39:22.055 --> 00:39:24.795

<v Doc>the quality of the two people that were doing

00:39:24.795 --> 00:39:27.875

<v Doc>the show before they're one of the top shows

00:39:27.875 --> 00:39:35.935

<v Doc>yeah and the green powders have been debunked so many times and there's so many

00:39:35.935 --> 00:39:39.575

<v Doc>scam articles written about it and you're still letting them advertise because

00:39:39.575 --> 00:39:45.155

<v Doc>they pay you a grip i'm like that starts to feel a little disconnected yeah

00:39:45.155 --> 00:39:47.135

<v Katie>You can damage trust right you can.

00:39:47.135 --> 00:39:50.215

<v Doc>Yeah it's damaging trust so like now i even though

00:39:50.215 --> 00:39:53.255

<v Doc>i'm listening to the patreon feed that doesn't have any ads

00:39:53.255 --> 00:39:55.975

<v Doc>in it i have a harder time because in

00:39:55.975 --> 00:39:58.755

<v Doc>the back of my head i'm like fam i'm

00:39:58.755 --> 00:40:04.595

<v Doc>all about the bag bro trust you me but like now when you're telling me something

00:40:04.595 --> 00:40:09.715

<v Doc>that is really good i have to question is it really though because you know

00:40:09.715 --> 00:40:17.795

<v Doc>you just they would just talk about anything like anything now they're getting me on a uh

00:40:19.055 --> 00:40:23.255

<v Doc>there's a new one i think it's called chime it's like a a credit card where

00:40:23.255 --> 00:40:25.635

<v Doc>you know you can have a bad credit and still get the card.

00:40:26.295 --> 00:40:31.815

<v Doc>I'm like, fam, you're like the number three podcast into somebody got killed genre.

00:40:32.555 --> 00:40:34.015

<v Doc>None of y'all need time.

00:40:34.895 --> 00:40:41.615

<v Katie>How about selling like ring doorbells or security systems or murder mystery night kits?

00:40:41.975 --> 00:40:45.335

<v Doc>You know what? If they did an advertisement for Incognito, which I use,

00:40:45.535 --> 00:40:50.395

<v Doc>or the other data breach tools that are out there, I would totally be about that life.

00:40:50.555 --> 00:40:52.735

<v Doc>But neither one of them has needed

00:40:52.735 --> 00:40:55.935

<v Doc>time for a long time. And then maybe somebody in the audience need it.

00:40:56.535 --> 00:41:00.195

<v Doc>But then you make the commercial say, listen, as you know, we've been blessed.

00:41:00.335 --> 00:41:01.275

<v Doc>We're a successful podcast.

00:41:01.515 --> 00:41:05.475

<v Doc>We don't necessarily need time, but we understand financial times are hard. Here's a good look.

00:41:05.735 --> 00:41:09.055

<v Doc>So like, don't just take every advertisement that comes up. And some of that

00:41:09.055 --> 00:41:11.255

<v Doc>is network driven, but they're not even a network.

00:41:11.435 --> 00:41:14.355

<v Doc>So this is literally they're making the decision because somebody comes in there. Here's a bag.

00:41:14.575 --> 00:41:17.255

<v Doc>I'm going to give you 50 grand to run this for the next six weeks.

00:41:17.355 --> 00:41:18.115

<v Doc>And they're like, OK, bet.

00:41:18.475 --> 00:41:21.735

<v Doc>And I'm like, it needs to match your people. So like, I don't know that that

00:41:21.735 --> 00:41:23.735

<v Doc>part of the business makes podcasting.

00:41:23.955 --> 00:41:27.995

<v Doc>Become television, which is why we're watching podcasting, because it ain't television.

00:41:29.015 --> 00:41:29.115

<v Katie>Yeah.

00:41:30.138 --> 00:41:32.678

<v Katie>Yeah, it's really important to keep in mind. And then, you know,

00:41:32.778 --> 00:41:34.478

<v Katie>I'm seeing a few questions coming

00:41:34.478 --> 00:41:38.138

<v Katie>up about asking about different kinds of quote-unquote monetization.

00:41:38.398 --> 00:41:42.338

<v Katie>There are so many clever things that you can do, right?

00:41:42.498 --> 00:41:45.658

<v Katie>So, like, you can, you know, as you start building an audience,

00:41:45.838 --> 00:41:49.018

<v Katie>and they're an audience that, like, knows, likes, and trusts you, right?

00:41:49.138 --> 00:41:52.558

<v Katie>Like, you can build a membership program off of that.

00:41:52.738 --> 00:41:55.698

<v Katie>Like, spend time with them in different ways. And, you know,

00:41:55.878 --> 00:42:00.558

<v Katie>everyone is probably a lot more likely to pay five bucks a month to be part

00:42:00.558 --> 00:42:03.618

<v Katie>of your membership program than wanting to hear ads, right?

00:42:03.738 --> 00:42:06.638

<v Katie>Especially ones that are not relevant. So maybe that makes more sense.

00:42:06.858 --> 00:42:11.678

<v Katie>Maybe, you know, someone was asking in the comments about merch, right?

00:42:11.758 --> 00:42:15.518

<v Katie>And how you link up merch to YouTube, right? So there's a bunch of different tools out there.

00:42:15.698 --> 00:42:18.878

<v Katie>We use Fourth Wall, which is a free tool, right?

00:42:18.958 --> 00:42:22.038

<v Katie>So you can get up and running with merch for free.

00:42:22.058 --> 00:42:26.758

<v Katie>Like it's all drop ship. you design it, you set the prices, and you make the

00:42:26.758 --> 00:42:31.398

<v Katie>difference between, you know, what the cost of it is and, you know,

00:42:31.418 --> 00:42:32.438

<v Katie>how much you sold it for, right?

00:42:32.558 --> 00:42:35.398

<v Katie>So there's a lot of different things that you can do.

00:42:35.478 --> 00:42:39.638

<v Katie>And again, like, you could reach out to similar businesses. And instead of running.

00:42:40.138 --> 00:42:44.178

<v Katie>Ads that might annoy or antagonize your audience, why don't you bring those

00:42:44.178 --> 00:42:47.518

<v Katie>people on and have them talk to your audience and answer your audience's questions, right?

00:42:47.618 --> 00:42:51.858

<v Katie>So there's lots of different things that you can do in different ways.

00:42:52.218 --> 00:42:55.938

<v Katie>If you're, again, if you're thinking about your podcast as a business,

00:42:55.938 --> 00:42:59.198

<v Katie>and if you have a detailed plan of how you're going to get there,

00:42:59.358 --> 00:43:01.018

<v Katie>and then you're protecting your audience.

00:43:01.198 --> 00:43:04.118

<v Katie>Those are the important things that you need to keep in mind throughout this experience.

00:43:04.578 --> 00:43:06.078

<v Doc>I would say, just don't even think about it in the beginning,

00:43:06.078 --> 00:43:09.458

<v Doc>because it's going to cause you to make decisions that aren't necessarily correct.

00:43:09.758 --> 00:43:13.598

<v Doc>And to Johnny's point, and I know he's joking, Johnny says, is it possible that

00:43:13.598 --> 00:43:15.518

<v Doc>when you first started out, you take what you can get?

00:43:16.158 --> 00:43:19.518

<v Doc>No, that's the problem. That is the problem. Okay.

00:43:19.718 --> 00:43:24.158

<v Doc>As a kid of the eighties, and I'm sure you know this, we were probably not quite

00:43:24.158 --> 00:43:28.858

<v Doc>the last, but one of the last generations that many of us children were born

00:43:28.858 --> 00:43:33.258

<v Doc>out of sort of, I wouldn't call it forced marriages, but only I marriages, right?

00:43:33.378 --> 00:43:35.998

<v Doc>Where parents had too much of the hand in it.

00:43:36.418 --> 00:43:40.298

<v Doc>And all of us ended up kids of divorced parents when we got into our teens.

00:43:41.998 --> 00:43:46.118

<v Doc>Because grandma and church and all these other people were lining folks together

00:43:46.118 --> 00:43:49.558

<v Doc>that didn't really go together. And you know what suffers in the end is the seeds.

00:43:50.418 --> 00:43:54.818

<v Doc>So taking what you can get, there's a whole bunch of people right now in unhappy

00:43:54.818 --> 00:43:58.598

<v Doc>relationships because they settled for what they thought was all they could

00:43:58.598 --> 00:44:01.878

<v Doc>get, the first that they could get, whatever the case may be.

00:44:01.978 --> 00:44:04.918

<v Doc>So that is just a bad business model in every way, shape or form.

00:44:05.038 --> 00:44:07.718

<v Doc>You should never, ever, ever jump on it because

00:44:07.718 --> 00:44:10.558

<v Doc>it's all you can get that's selling yourself short if you think that's all you

00:44:10.558 --> 00:44:13.338

<v Doc>should get you should stop podcasting right now because you mean you don't think

00:44:13.338 --> 00:44:16.478

<v Doc>that you're good enough to attract the audit uh advertiser that matches you

00:44:16.478 --> 00:44:21.538

<v Doc>so that's a bad mindset so i'm sorry you know you're my buddy but you know i'm

00:44:21.538 --> 00:44:26.938

<v Doc>gonna keep it straight with you no the answer to that question and freak no anyway back

00:44:26.938 --> 00:44:30.618

<v Katie>In the red so i said i said yeah in that i,

00:44:31.191 --> 00:44:35.971

<v Katie>I think a lot of people, sorry, in my mind, the way that the question was phrased,

00:44:35.991 --> 00:44:38.371

<v Katie>let me defend myself here because Doc is absolutely right.

00:44:38.691 --> 00:44:42.951

<v Katie>I think many people when they're thinking about making money off their podcast

00:44:42.951 --> 00:44:49.531

<v Katie>are thinking about those high-level giant companies up here that they,

00:44:49.731 --> 00:44:53.391

<v Katie>in their minds, think pay bajillions of dollars to these podcasters,

00:44:53.491 --> 00:44:55.451

<v Katie>which is not true anyway, to start off with.

00:44:55.551 --> 00:45:00.731

<v Katie>It's just not true. But they're forgetting all of the smaller,

00:45:00.891 --> 00:45:07.131

<v Katie>quote unquote, take what you can get partners out there that maybe could do

00:45:07.131 --> 00:45:13.511

<v Katie>something amazing in bartering or in smaller amounts of money or in a value add for your audience.

00:45:13.511 --> 00:45:19.071

<v Katie>So I just want to challenge everyone to stop thinking that you need to have

00:45:19.071 --> 00:45:24.431

<v Katie>these really large companies that are paying you some pretend large amount of

00:45:24.431 --> 00:45:27.451

<v Katie>money that isn't even accurate and start thinking through again,

00:45:27.591 --> 00:45:33.171

<v Katie>maybe you could trade a tool that you're using to create or to promote your podcast.

00:45:33.331 --> 00:45:38.331

<v Katie>Maybe you can trade the subscription for that for talking about it if it's relevant to your audience.

00:45:38.711 --> 00:45:43.471

<v Katie>So in how you're phrasing that question, Johnny, I was thinking about like,

00:45:43.591 --> 00:45:46.971

<v Katie>don't take what you can get in that like, as crazy people are emailing you about

00:45:46.971 --> 00:45:48.851

<v Katie>your show, say yes to all of them. Don't do that.

00:45:49.011 --> 00:45:52.551

<v Katie>But also, don't forget like, that there are probably.

00:45:53.351 --> 00:45:58.451

<v Katie>Companies and people and tools and I don't know, whatever else out there that

00:45:58.451 --> 00:46:02.611

<v Katie>you might not be thinking about because you're thinking too up into the clouds

00:46:02.611 --> 00:46:05.251

<v Katie>of things that are going to make you a bajillions of monies, right?

00:46:05.531 --> 00:46:08.531

<v Katie>Yeah, the reason they're big companies is because they don't pay out big dollars

00:46:08.531 --> 00:46:10.611

<v Katie>to podcasters. Very true.

00:46:10.791 --> 00:46:12.791

<v Doc>Tommy had the best comment right there.

00:46:13.751 --> 00:46:16.651

<v Katie>Yeah very true across the board all right well jumping

00:46:16.651 --> 00:46:24.431

<v Katie>into our next uh our next myth buster or controversy uh which is do you really

00:46:24.431 --> 00:46:27.811

<v Katie>need to have a niche in podcasting i know doc has a bunch of feelings about

00:46:27.811 --> 00:46:31.831

<v Katie>it so do you need a niche in podcasting no or is it just a marketing hype is

00:46:31.831 --> 00:46:34.131

<v Katie>that is this marketing hype doc what about first.

00:46:34.131 --> 00:46:38.111

<v Doc>Of all people need to get off the word hype because they like to use that word

00:46:38.111 --> 00:46:40.571

<v Doc>meaning that there's something that they know is good advice that they need,

00:46:40.691 --> 00:46:43.351

<v Doc>but they don't want to use that advice or everybody else uses that advice.

00:46:43.471 --> 00:46:47.351

<v Doc>So if I label it hype, that allows me to make it negative, even though it's

00:46:47.351 --> 00:46:48.731

<v Doc>neither negative or positive.

00:46:49.711 --> 00:46:55.711

<v Doc>Words like hype and there's a bunch of other trends or whatever,

00:46:55.911 --> 00:46:58.971

<v Doc>literally you're just phrasing it

00:46:58.971 --> 00:47:02.371

<v Doc>in a way in your brain so that you don't have to think about it by applying

00:47:02.371 --> 00:47:07.071

<v Doc>an unnecessarily negative thing to it so get get off of the the words that people

00:47:07.071 --> 00:47:13.171

<v Doc>use to control your brain um as i say i won't say i as mary lou and i say unsubscribe

00:47:13.171 --> 00:47:16.431

<v Doc>the words that's none of your damn business hype is one of them all

00:47:16.431 --> 00:47:17.231

<v Katie>Right if anything.

00:47:17.231 --> 00:47:22.151

<v Doc>Is gaining height there's probably something to it whether good or bad or indifferent

00:47:22.151 --> 00:47:26.311

<v Doc>there's probably something to it okay so the reason why i say yes and no

00:47:27.456 --> 00:47:32.276

<v Doc>Everybody told Jerry Seinfeld that you can't make a show about nothing.

00:47:32.536 --> 00:47:37.936

<v Doc>And Jerry Seinfeld said, hold my beer. And he made the most popular show about nothing.

00:47:38.116 --> 00:47:41.556

<v Doc>You can absolutely make a show about nothing.

00:47:42.476 --> 00:47:46.556

<v Doc>One of the people that we're working with, we've been talking about making a show about nothing.

00:47:46.716 --> 00:47:51.836

<v Doc>For a simple point of showing you how to do a show, the show itself doesn't have to have a topic.

00:47:52.016 --> 00:47:54.756

<v Doc>We're just making a show about nothing, but it's more or less to show you the

00:47:54.756 --> 00:47:58.716

<v Doc>back end of how to do a show. So yeah, you can have a show without a niche.

00:47:59.176 --> 00:48:03.176

<v Doc>These are decisions that everybody wants an answer to because they don't want

00:48:03.176 --> 00:48:07.016

<v Doc>to be wrong. But here's the reality. You won't know until you try it.

00:48:07.496 --> 00:48:12.976

<v Doc>So the only thing I would say about the niche is if you have one, dope.

00:48:13.176 --> 00:48:18.056

<v Doc>If you're going to pick one, like, you know, she said a podcast about business.

00:48:18.476 --> 00:48:23.016

<v Doc>Yeah, that's a dumb niche. A podcast about solopreneurs automating their business.

00:48:23.096 --> 00:48:25.376

<v Doc>That's a specific niche. That's good. Right.

00:48:26.016 --> 00:48:28.436

<v Doc>Just doing it. Here's a podcast about business. You're going to have a hard

00:48:28.436 --> 00:48:31.076

<v Doc>time because you just don't know exactly who you're attracting.

00:48:31.316 --> 00:48:33.596

<v Doc>You're on that. My audience is everybody.

00:48:33.916 --> 00:48:36.036

<v Doc>If your audience is everybody, your audience is nobody.

00:48:36.436 --> 00:48:44.096

<v Doc>Right. So if you're going to do one, pick one, kind of get hyper focused, try to keep it tight.

00:48:44.096 --> 00:48:47.096

<v Doc>Even if you think there's not a lot to it, you can always expand,

00:48:47.096 --> 00:48:50.196

<v Doc>but it's sometimes harder to drill down.

00:48:50.196 --> 00:48:53.616

<v Doc>And then second of all you might

00:48:53.616 --> 00:48:56.876

<v Doc>get 40 50 episodes in

00:48:56.876 --> 00:48:59.656

<v Doc>before you figure out your niche so you can start out in one niche and

00:48:59.656 --> 00:49:06.336

<v Doc>become something completely different and i've watched that happen to um lots

00:49:06.336 --> 00:49:12.296

<v Doc>and lots of people in that in that particular podcasting range right so in tech

00:49:12.296 --> 00:49:16.576

<v Doc>for instance a lot of my mac podcasts they started out one way and they're just

00:49:16.576 --> 00:49:18.416

<v Doc>doing like you know, iOS apps.

00:49:18.556 --> 00:49:24.096

<v Doc>But then iOS apps now became iPad apps. Now a lot of apps are across, you know, device.

00:49:24.296 --> 00:49:27.796

<v Doc>You can use them on all three. So now their show literally covers a gambit.

00:49:27.856 --> 00:49:32.116

<v Doc>But their original podcast was I was going to do a five minute podcast about

00:49:32.116 --> 00:49:33.356

<v Doc>an app you need to see today.

00:49:33.556 --> 00:49:37.656

<v Doc>Because back when the app store first opened, there was literally 100 brand

00:49:37.656 --> 00:49:40.056

<v Doc>new apps every day. We're not at that point anymore.

00:49:40.196 --> 00:49:43.516

<v Doc>We're getting much more robust and clean apps, no more fart and flashlights

00:49:43.516 --> 00:49:49.416

<v Doc>so their show evolved and that's absolutely cool but i think in the beginning

00:49:50.076 --> 00:49:52.836

<v Doc>Maybe have your first 10 episodes in your

00:49:52.836 --> 00:49:55.676

<v Doc>head do those 10 see where

00:49:55.676 --> 00:49:58.496

<v Doc>it goes now plan your next 10 do those 10 see where

00:49:58.496 --> 00:50:01.996

<v Doc>it goes and just go back to the monetizing thing

00:50:01.996 --> 00:50:05.276

<v Doc>go have fun for 25 episodes yeah

00:50:05.276 --> 00:50:09.376

<v Doc>most of y'all don't make it past seven that's just a national fact has been

00:50:09.376 --> 00:50:16.216

<v Doc>that fact since 2009 maybe before that actually the pod fade has been about

00:50:16.216 --> 00:50:21.656

<v Doc>that has never changed it's always been seven episodes explode so yeah don't

00:50:21.656 --> 00:50:24.036

<v Doc>don't overthink it just do just do it

00:50:24.764 --> 00:50:32.184

<v Katie>I'm laughing because here are the places where you don't need to have a super specific niche, right?

00:50:32.404 --> 00:50:37.484

<v Katie>So if you're completely famous, if you are super famous, and you have a lot

00:50:37.484 --> 00:50:39.864

<v Katie>of people who already follow you, you don't need a niche because you already

00:50:39.864 --> 00:50:40.724

<v Katie>have an audience, right?

00:50:40.864 --> 00:50:43.804

<v Katie>If you have a huge built-in audience somewhere else like us, right?

00:50:43.944 --> 00:50:47.964

<v Katie>So like we're Ecamm, we have a huge customer base. We have a huge group of people

00:50:47.964 --> 00:50:50.824

<v Katie>who are likely to come over and listen to our live streams and videos.

00:50:50.824 --> 00:50:56.084

<v Katie>We probably didn't need as much of a niche as maybe you do when you're starting off your new show.

00:50:56.424 --> 00:51:00.924

<v Katie>And as Doc said, if you're starting it as just a hobby or just for fun,

00:51:01.104 --> 00:51:02.424

<v Katie>don't worry about it too much.

00:51:02.764 --> 00:51:06.584

<v Katie>See how it goes. And then you can decide at some point, right?

00:51:06.684 --> 00:51:07.524

<v Katie>Because it's just for fun.

00:51:07.644 --> 00:51:11.364

<v Katie>You're not trying to do anything other than see how good you can be at this,

00:51:11.544 --> 00:51:14.744

<v Katie>test everything out, try it out and have fun while you're doing it.

00:51:14.904 --> 00:51:20.324

<v Katie>So stop overthinking it a lot and really just start out.

00:51:20.504 --> 00:51:24.704

<v Katie>And again, like these things are changeable. So you could decide that your space

00:51:24.704 --> 00:51:28.624

<v Katie>is in one place and then realize it's in a completely different place. And that's all right.

00:51:28.964 --> 00:51:31.224

<v Katie>You can make those changes later. That's fine.

00:51:32.684 --> 00:51:36.064

<v Doc>It's funny. I don't know why the thought came to my mind again.

00:51:36.084 --> 00:51:40.204

<v Doc>It seems really weird, but okay. I think I've come to the point of why they connect in my brain.

00:51:42.824 --> 00:51:47.444

<v Doc>Relationships, business is a relationship. Podcast host to audience is a relationship.

00:51:47.444 --> 00:51:50.664

<v Doc>Although parasocial is still the relationships relationships all

00:51:50.664 --> 00:51:53.524

<v Doc>kind of work and here's something that's really strange

00:51:53.524 --> 00:51:56.464

<v Doc>if you're good at what we

00:51:56.464 --> 00:52:03.004

<v Doc>would call you know IRL relationships you're going to be good at this if you're

00:52:03.004 --> 00:52:08.384

<v Doc>bad at IRL relationships you might suffer with this because the same practices

00:52:08.384 --> 00:52:14.044

<v Doc>that you would use in an IRL relationship whether that's friends are intimate,

00:52:14.244 --> 00:52:17.504

<v Doc>whatever the case may be, is literally some of the same stuff that it comes

00:52:17.504 --> 00:52:18.944

<v Doc>when it comes to customer service.

00:52:19.184 --> 00:52:23.644

<v Doc>Respect people where they are, be a good listener, hear what they're saying,

00:52:23.924 --> 00:52:28.024

<v Doc>give the people what they want, levels of altruism when necessary,

00:52:28.524 --> 00:52:30.844

<v Doc>not being too selfish. All these things all work.

00:52:31.144 --> 00:52:37.224

<v Doc>And if you are, I know so many people who when they first met,

00:52:37.404 --> 00:52:42.004

<v Doc>because I'm what they call a booker chain, I'm an officiant.

00:52:42.004 --> 00:52:43.564

<v Doc>So I've done tons of weddings.

00:52:45.464 --> 00:52:48.024

<v Doc>And I just did my niece's wedding like three weeks ago.

00:52:49.899 --> 00:52:56.959

<v Doc>Her and her husband now, my new nef, they were just friends and,

00:52:56.959 --> 00:52:59.039

<v Doc>you know, it was never going to be a thing.

00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:01.339

<v Doc>And then they spend more time together, that familiarity.

00:53:01.579 --> 00:53:03.639

<v Doc>And then we all saw it. They didn't see it, maybe.

00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:07.059

<v Doc>And then it's like, oh, no, you know, we just we go out here and there,

00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:08.219

<v Doc>but it's not really a thing.

00:53:08.439 --> 00:53:13.419

<v Doc>And because there was not the pressure of I get to get this niche, you know, so to speak.

00:53:13.919 --> 00:53:17.219

<v Doc>Here they are. Like they met when they were 12. They started dating when they

00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:23.799

<v Doc>were 17. and I just officiated that joint when they're 27, you know what I mean? I love it.

00:53:23.959 --> 00:53:28.079

<v Doc>They will be, I've done this a lot, they will probably be forever,

00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:32.259

<v Doc>right? The ones that start out when they're not doing what everybody else tells

00:53:32.259 --> 00:53:34.759

<v Doc>them to do, they tend to last, right? Same thing.

00:53:34.879 --> 00:53:38.539

<v Doc>If you do your show and you're coming out and you're having fun and you're just

00:53:38.539 --> 00:53:42.159

<v Doc>enjoying it and you're slowly evolving a love for it or whatever,

00:53:42.379 --> 00:53:44.039

<v Doc>and then it becomes real.

00:53:44.299 --> 00:53:46.979

<v Doc>And those tend to last, you know?

00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:51.259

<v Doc>Heck, you and Dane have been together since forever in the day.

00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:55.899

<v Doc>Right? And same with me and Karen. Like, we never even stepped into a church,

00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.359

<v Doc>but we outlasted all the people that went and got married.

00:53:58.999 --> 00:54:00.619

<v Doc>And everybody kept telling us to go married.

00:54:01.279 --> 00:54:03.259

<v Doc>Right? You stepped into a church, yeah. And they're like, well,

00:54:03.259 --> 00:54:04.979

<v Doc>how do you marry people you don't get married? Because I don't want to.

00:54:05.299 --> 00:54:09.699

<v Doc>But we're going to be 26 years, fam. We have outlasted one of the friends that

00:54:09.699 --> 00:54:11.439

<v Doc>keep asking us that question. She's on number three.

00:54:11.659 --> 00:54:15.119

<v Doc>And I'm just like, you should shut your face or maybe take some notes, idiot.

00:54:16.939 --> 00:54:20.939

<v Doc>Like bruh and by the way if you've gone through three it's probably you I'm

00:54:20.939 --> 00:54:22.979

<v Doc>saying I just said that was mean doc don't say that

00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:28.900

<v Doc>Tora said hit episode 224 this morning.

00:54:29.060 --> 00:54:33.180

<v Katie>Come on, gangsta. Yeah, congratulations to Tora. And I saw Paul says that he's

00:54:33.180 --> 00:54:36.540

<v Katie>325 episodes in. Congratulations.

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:40.860

<v Doc>Beat the national average. Yo, Paul, you took it out back and whooped it.

00:54:42.120 --> 00:54:45.600

<v Doc>You took it out back and whooped it with a two-by-four. Come on, Paul.

00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:49.480

<v Katie>You've reset the curve. I love it. I love it.

00:54:49.600 --> 00:54:53.140

<v Katie>All right, well, here in the interest of time, we have one left.

00:54:53.140 --> 00:54:57.060

<v Katie>We will do it really quickly. Although I kind of think it's probably like the

00:54:57.060 --> 00:54:59.480

<v Katie>best one, in my humble opinion anyway.

00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:03.080

<v Katie>So time wasters, right?

00:55:03.140 --> 00:55:07.500

<v Katie>There's a lot of kind of myths around what is actually taking the most amount

00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.600

<v Katie>of time when it comes to podcasting and video podcasting.

00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:14.540

<v Katie>And what should we be doing instead? So what are some of those time wasters,

00:55:14.680 --> 00:55:16.720

<v Katie>Doc? And how can we overcome them?

00:55:17.420 --> 00:55:20.140

<v Doc>Oh, the biggest thing is coming out of the

00:55:20.140 --> 00:55:23.300

<v Doc>gate thinking that you need to produce like some

00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:26.460

<v Doc>incredible espn level you know

00:55:26.460 --> 00:55:29.240

<v Doc>show um i think another one right

00:55:29.240 --> 00:55:32.320

<v Doc>now that's hanging up a lot of people like this was good man

00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:36.620

<v Doc>don't get caught up in the tag podcast my community like we've just decided

00:55:36.620 --> 00:55:40.700

<v Doc>we're just going to call them shows because right now the ogs are coming for

00:55:40.700 --> 00:55:44.580

<v Doc>you and right now the ogs are putting out a lot of articles about you know podcast

00:55:44.580 --> 00:55:48.340

<v Doc>this podcast that podcast because they're not ready for all the new people to

00:55:48.340 --> 00:55:51.700

<v Doc>blow past them and i listen i am not mad at them.

00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:56.460

<v Doc>But can you understand you've been podcasting since when we had the hand code

00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:58.120

<v Doc>podcast. That's me. Okay.

00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:03.400

<v Doc>And you know, we had to like write our feed burner feeds.

00:56:03.600 --> 00:56:08.180

<v Doc>You know, I mean, you're talking really, really old school, 2004, 2005. And then

00:56:08.966 --> 00:56:11.586

<v Doc>Two little kids i don't i just mean they're in

00:56:11.586 --> 00:56:14.286

<v Doc>their 20s two little kids pop up on the couch they got a glass

00:56:14.286 --> 00:56:17.306

<v Doc>of wine feet on the couch they're talking about

00:56:17.306 --> 00:56:20.846

<v Doc>k-pop or they're talking about some

00:56:20.846 --> 00:56:24.386

<v Doc>tv show or whatever and they're

00:56:24.386 --> 00:56:27.526

<v Doc>just basically blabbering no show technique no

00:56:27.526 --> 00:56:31.506

<v Doc>mic technique no whatever and the

00:56:31.506 --> 00:56:35.066

<v Doc>show is just all over the map but they're personality driven and

00:56:35.066 --> 00:56:37.726

<v Doc>then they're getting two three million downloads and all of a

00:56:37.726 --> 00:56:42.466

<v Doc>sudden they're a popular show i cannot understand how in a million years call

00:56:42.466 --> 00:56:49.266

<v Doc>me daddy is as popular as it is but it is okay as an og podcaster i have no

00:56:49.266 --> 00:56:55.486

<v Doc>feelings about that i don't care if anything i congratulate shorty because she's bringing

00:56:58.366 --> 00:57:01.566

<v Doc>Validation to our medium, right?

00:57:02.566 --> 00:57:08.046

<v Doc>Kardashians hate me. Dumb as show on TV, but it brought validation to a medium.

00:57:08.246 --> 00:57:11.846

<v Doc>And no matter how much you might not like the Kardashians, the business person

00:57:11.846 --> 00:57:16.366

<v Doc>in me, those people have generated an empire.

00:57:17.386 --> 00:57:21.046

<v Doc>Like they are a couple of steps underneath the Waltons for printing money.

00:57:21.566 --> 00:57:24.706

<v Doc>So are you jealous or you just don't like the content?

00:57:25.486 --> 00:57:27.426

<v Doc>And I'm not an idiot, a little of both.

00:57:28.626 --> 00:57:34.326

<v Doc>Let's be real, let's be real. So spending too much time chasing what the OGs

00:57:34.326 --> 00:57:37.806

<v Doc>are telling you, like, I'm sorry, man, I'm an OG, but I'm gonna tell you what's

00:57:37.806 --> 00:57:39.626

<v Doc>modern and curious because I don't have any feelings.

00:57:39.726 --> 00:57:43.526

<v Doc>I don't feel, you know, butthurt that these young ones are passing me or even

00:57:43.526 --> 00:57:45.486

<v Doc>old people who started the show that are passing me.

00:57:45.566 --> 00:57:49.086

<v Doc>I just feel like they're making the space better and they're helping people

00:57:49.086 --> 00:57:51.286

<v Doc>and they're giving people some brightness to their day.

00:57:52.330 --> 00:57:56.750

<v Doc>Bingo. Let it go. You know what I mean? And we know how I feel about political

00:57:56.750 --> 00:58:02.670

<v Doc>game, but that side has rocked podcasting lately and has showed a lot about what happens.

00:58:02.670 --> 00:58:06.630

<v Doc>If you look at the business structure and the planning and how they do their

00:58:06.630 --> 00:58:11.010

<v Doc>shows or whatever, you don't have to like the content, but the motto is still

00:58:11.010 --> 00:58:14.750

<v Doc>there of how to build entire empires in a short amount of time.

00:58:15.350 --> 00:58:20.690

<v Doc>So if you know how to dissect that and just ignore what they're doing that's

00:58:20.690 --> 00:58:26.350

<v Doc>getting on your nerves and look at the bones, that steak has bones, right?

00:58:26.490 --> 00:58:30.770

<v Doc>So what lessons can I learn from something that I hate? Too many people can't do that.

00:58:31.150 --> 00:58:36.470

<v Doc>Too many people can't do that. So I would be focusing on just getting good at

00:58:36.470 --> 00:58:40.130

<v Doc>your skill, getting good at talking, getting good at presenting,

00:58:40.450 --> 00:58:41.330

<v Doc>getting good at marketing.

00:58:41.430 --> 00:58:46.270

<v Doc>If you can handle those things, you will be fine. Don't get too twisted in all

00:58:46.270 --> 00:58:50.090

<v Doc>of the, like Paul had a beautiful question talking about, should you do these

00:58:50.090 --> 00:58:51.730

<v Doc>as premieres or not premieres?

00:58:52.270 --> 00:58:55.070

<v Doc>That's an experiment thing, Paul. And I tried it.

00:58:55.230 --> 00:58:58.550

<v Doc>It just doesn't kind of sort of work. I still do them because I'm fun.

00:58:58.570 --> 00:59:00.630

<v Doc>Or I want to see right away what

00:59:00.630 --> 00:59:02.910

<v Doc>people think about this video that I just made. Cause I think it's fire.

00:59:03.050 --> 00:59:06.530

<v Doc>I'll rock that as a premier and just sit there and I'll talk to three people

00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:10.490

<v Doc>like Carlos will pop on a couple of other people pop on, but that's because

00:59:10.490 --> 00:59:13.690

<v Doc>Carlos and I are West coast. So everybody else is asleep.

00:59:14.270 --> 00:59:18.870

<v Doc>So, yeah, like it's not I don't even I don't even like, oh, if you do this,

00:59:18.970 --> 00:59:19.910

<v Doc>your thing is going to blow up.

00:59:20.050 --> 00:59:24.030

<v Doc>I even try to stop doing that in my content because no, it's not.

00:59:24.250 --> 00:59:25.850

<v Doc>It only blows up when it's good.

00:59:26.290 --> 00:59:31.030

<v Doc>If it's good, it will blow up, period. If it's trash, it's trash.

00:59:31.270 --> 00:59:34.430

<v Doc>And you just got to be much better at saying my show needs work.

00:59:35.230 --> 00:59:35.670

<v Katie>Yeah.

00:59:36.630 --> 00:59:39.710

<v Doc>It's like recycling a dresser. Trash can turn into treasure.

00:59:39.710 --> 00:59:46.410

<v Doc>So you might just need to go and scrub it sand it restain it put an oil-based

00:59:46.410 --> 00:59:52.050

<v Doc>epoxy on the outside let it dry for eight days and then sell it sorry my woodworker leaked out

00:59:52.050 --> 00:59:57.270

<v Katie>No it's fine um i totally agree i think the number one i think the number one

00:59:57.270 --> 01:00:00.990

<v Katie>thing we are all wasting time at right now is just overthinking it and over

01:00:00.990 --> 01:00:05.330

<v Katie>complicating it and looking at what everyone else is doing and trying to be

01:00:05.330 --> 01:00:07.470

<v Katie>in that same lane instead of being ourselves.

01:00:07.770 --> 01:00:14.330

<v Katie>So if we can all stop worrying so much about all of it and just do the work

01:00:14.330 --> 01:00:18.750

<v Katie>and get a little bit better every single time and test and play,

01:00:19.090 --> 01:00:21.210

<v Katie>and all you really need...

01:00:22.407 --> 01:00:28.267

<v Katie>To do correctly, quote unquote, is, is the, the planning of the actual like

01:00:28.267 --> 01:00:32.007

<v Katie>run of show of your show, right? So like, what is your show about?

01:00:32.447 --> 01:00:37.007

<v Katie>What is the content for, you know, each week? Are you, are you getting that content out?

01:00:37.147 --> 01:00:41.487

<v Katie>Like, so your, your plan, the actual creation of the episodes themselves and

01:00:41.487 --> 01:00:44.787

<v Katie>the promotion of trying to get them out into the world with people so that you're

01:00:44.787 --> 01:00:49.827

<v Katie>building an audience, everything else underneath those is editable,

01:00:50.047 --> 01:00:53.807

<v Katie>is changeable, is, can start off terrible and get better.

01:00:54.067 --> 01:00:56.287

<v Katie>Like all of it is a process.

01:00:56.287 --> 01:01:01.327

<v Doc>Oh, we got way better over 103 episodes. We've gotten so good that Katie says

01:01:01.327 --> 01:01:02.687

<v Doc>she will stop overthinking.

01:01:05.147 --> 01:01:09.847

<v Katie>I'm a recovering, as my friend Ian says, I am a recovering overthinker.

01:01:10.807 --> 01:01:16.727

<v Katie>But like it, I will say, so as someone who has like forced myself into this

01:01:16.727 --> 01:01:20.567

<v Katie>process in a couple of different ways and in a couple of different places,

01:01:20.567 --> 01:01:21.967

<v Katie>personally and professionally,

01:01:22.327 --> 01:01:28.427

<v Katie>the times where I just create a really simple process and then I go through

01:01:28.427 --> 01:01:31.567

<v Katie>it and then I make little tweaks here and there to get a little bit better,

01:01:31.787 --> 01:01:35.847

<v Katie>the numbers come, the people come, the interaction comes,

01:01:36.167 --> 01:01:41.207

<v Katie>the marketing gets better, the show episodes get better, the process gets better.

01:01:41.267 --> 01:01:46.187

<v Katie>It all gets better, but you need to just start simply and grow from there so it.

01:01:46.187 --> 01:01:47.227

<v Doc>Correct um

01:01:47.227 --> 01:01:50.767

<v Katie>Yeah you know it's so cool time in the details get out of the weeds.

01:01:50.767 --> 01:01:55.327

<v Doc>Yeah yeah get out of the weeds i think what's cool is is sort of what you just

01:01:55.327 --> 01:02:01.367

<v Doc>said and i realize why both of us have you know those overthinking proclivities it's a virgo situation

01:02:02.107 --> 01:02:08.387

<v Doc>we are hardcore perfectionists we just are and we also are people pleasers and

01:02:08.387 --> 01:02:12.727

<v Doc>like the worst combo you can have is be a perfectionist people pleaser because

01:02:12.727 --> 01:02:15.187

<v Doc>what that does is take all of your time away from you.

01:02:15.427 --> 01:02:20.167

<v Doc>I have to fight that tooth and nail. I literally fight it every single day.

01:02:20.327 --> 01:02:24.267

<v Doc>That is my daily boxing match, making everybody else happy, but making sure

01:02:24.267 --> 01:02:25.747

<v Doc>that I handle what I got to handle.

01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:26.860

<v Katie>Yeah.

01:02:27.160 --> 01:02:27.860

<v Doc>Like, it's crazy.

01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:32.180

<v Katie>This was a fun episode. I feel I'm feeling good about this.

01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:34.740

<v Katie>So you'll have to let us know, people who are hanging out with us live,

01:02:35.200 --> 01:02:39.400

<v Katie>what are these kind of subtopics we should do as full episodes?

01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:41.180

<v Katie>We'd love to dive deeper on some of this content.

01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:47.340

<v Katie>And again, a small plug-in reminder for our podcast course where we do dive

01:02:47.340 --> 01:02:49.120

<v Katie>deeper into a lot of these topics and more.

01:02:49.180 --> 01:02:51.860

<v Katie>And we're always happy to add videos into that course space. It's free.

01:02:52.560 --> 01:02:56.900

<v Katie>And it kind of takes you through the flow episodes and some additional content

01:02:56.900 --> 01:03:01.660

<v Katie>in a little bit more of an organized way than just listening to the episodes.

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:03.340

<v Katie>So definitely worth checking out.

01:03:05.260 --> 01:03:06.740

<v Katie>Yeah, what else am I missing, Doc?

01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:12.260

<v Doc>That's it. I think one thing that we should talk about is that if you want to

01:03:12.260 --> 01:03:15.800

<v Doc>send us a question or follow the show,

01:03:16.080 --> 01:03:24.800

<v Doc>leave us a review, go to flow.ecam.com that's F-L-O-W dot ecam.com and we want

01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:27.180

<v Doc>to send a shout out to the people from Shure

01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:31.960

<v Doc>because they sure make us sound nice right now they have a hot new product that

01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:37.740

<v Doc>is the MV88 wireless which is a really cool mobile wireless thing and I know

01:03:37.740 --> 01:03:41.940

<v Doc>that Tori had mentioned in the chat about somebody recording their podcast in

01:03:41.940 --> 01:03:44.820

<v Doc>the car with the baby seat in the back while they're in the pickup line

01:03:45.540 --> 01:03:47.300

<v Doc>to pick up their kid from school.

01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:51.500

<v Doc>And yes, that is Jefferson. And he has an amazing podcast.

01:03:51.860 --> 01:03:53.900

<v Doc>It's done majority of the episodes from the car.

01:03:54.820 --> 01:03:57.920

<v Doc>So this is things that you could do if you grab yourself a short microphone.

01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:01.540

<v Doc>So go and check out short at short.com and tell them that Ecamm sent you.

01:04:01.780 --> 01:04:05.460

<v Doc>We love them for partnering with us here on The Flow.

01:04:07.620 --> 01:04:12.060

<v Katie>And you did a whole episode last week that drops today all about that.

01:04:12.200 --> 01:04:14.880

<v Doc>Yeah, about the mic. That's a specific mic. Oh, that mic is so good.

01:04:15.200 --> 01:04:17.460

<v Doc>I've been watching Lou's videos recently.

01:04:17.800 --> 01:04:21.200

<v Doc>Y'all done messed up. She'd be in her little chair with her little teeny mic,

01:04:21.300 --> 01:04:22.700

<v Doc>because it's like a little mic, right?

01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:25.400

<v Doc>She'd just be over here like, all right, y'all, y'all done let me loose with

01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:28.620

<v Doc>a wireless, and she could twirl around in her chair and play with the cats while

01:04:28.620 --> 01:04:33.280

<v Doc>she's doing her videos. It's super funny, but it does provide a level of relaxation

01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:35.160

<v Doc>and freedom that makes it easier to watch.

01:04:35.460 --> 01:04:39.440

<v Doc>If you just sit there and you look super pent up in your show,

01:04:39.660 --> 01:04:43.400

<v Doc>that can also affect, you know, relatability. so it

01:04:43.400 --> 01:04:49.860

<v Katie>Might help me with my flofa so i have my my new shore mic all right ideas for next week i might.

01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:57.860

<v Doc>Sit on the flofa feeling fancy the time change put us back in the dark but when

01:04:57.860 --> 01:05:01.900

<v Doc>it was a hour later i should have done a couple outside from the pool deck because

01:05:01.900 --> 01:05:05.320

<v Doc>it doesn't pick up any of the wind which where i live because i live by the

01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:09.660

<v Doc>ocean sometimes the wind is like let me try to knock down that building that I can't knock down.

01:05:10.180 --> 01:05:13.320

<v Doc>Like the wind is crazy. And so the day that I did my test video,

01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:16.000

<v Doc>I'm outside 25 mile an hour winds, you can't hear anything.

01:05:16.220 --> 01:05:19.060

<v Doc>So like, oh, I could have just gone shot one from the pool deck,

01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:22.520

<v Doc>forget a waterproof one, I'm gonna do the flow from inside the pool.

01:05:24.906 --> 01:05:28.866

<v Doc>Pool flow doc is drowning on the stream what the hell

01:05:29.566 --> 01:05:32.486

<v Katie>Yeah no drowning a lot on the stream that's not good.

01:05:32.486 --> 01:05:38.166

<v Doc>Guys this has been phenomenal Kate's great episode as always and yeah I mean

01:05:38.166 --> 01:05:43.066

<v Doc>really big ups to Paul Turner man thanks for coming through um hey we're in

01:05:43.066 --> 01:05:46.086

<v Doc>the same boat we are the the handsome guys over 55

01:05:47.046 --> 01:05:53.026

<v Doc>so come through anytime like we really appreciate you and And using e-cam or

01:05:53.026 --> 01:05:57.786

<v Doc>not, you know, always welcome to be a member of the flow riders because your

01:05:57.786 --> 01:05:59.886

<v Doc>insights today were great.

01:06:00.206 --> 01:06:05.466

<v Doc>And Saeed, the jokes came. I knew it. Saeed always wins with the flow koozie.

01:06:07.046 --> 01:06:12.566

<v Doc>Yo, the way my back is hurting today, Saeed, yo, the flow koozie might have been a thing.

01:06:13.066 --> 01:06:14.526

<v Katie>Yeah, that might have been a good idea.

01:06:14.566 --> 01:06:17.586

<v Doc>That's super funny. The house of Pauls.

01:06:17.786 --> 01:06:19.006

<v Katie>Thank you, house of Pauls.

01:06:19.566 --> 01:06:25.266

<v Doc>Thank you. yo paul make sure you induct paul turner into the the pulse because

01:06:25.266 --> 01:06:26.986

<v Doc>we have a bunch of them please

01:06:26.986 --> 01:06:29.026

<v Katie>Acquaint yourself with other pauls in the chat.

01:06:29.026 --> 01:06:31.726

<v Doc>All right so now we got a pt to go with

01:06:31.726 --> 01:06:34.446

<v Doc>the pk and the pd in the p or the two

01:06:34.446 --> 01:06:37.126

<v Doc>pds p dixon paul c

01:06:37.126 --> 01:06:39.946

<v Doc>is in the desert right now sending us

01:06:39.946 --> 01:06:42.826

<v Doc>live stream videos from the sahara desert bro i

01:06:42.826 --> 01:06:49.866

<v Doc>am freaking floored he did an entire stream from the desert the other day and

01:06:49.866 --> 01:06:53.706

<v Doc>it was beautiful i was just like man that's crazy we're in a special place right

01:06:53.706 --> 01:07:00.226

<v Doc>now go create something flow riders something out out bye everyone

01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:23.366

<v Music>