The Flow: Episode 99 - The Perfect Podcast Episode Formula

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<v Music>

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<v Doc>Aloha Flowriders and welcome to this edition of The Flow. I am your co-host

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<v Doc>Doc Rock along with my awesome co-host.

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<v Katie>Hey everyone, it's Katie.

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<v Doc>I don't know why it's funny to me still. It's like when we were like 98 or something,

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<v Doc>it's still funny to me. I have no idea why.

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<v Katie>I think we, this might be a hundred. I don't even know anymore.

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<v Katie>We might just be like quietly in a hundred. Are we quietly in a hundred, Luis?

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<v Katie>Oh, he's on mute. You're on mute. Wait, where's my sign?

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<v Doc>He muted in the house by himself. That's a sign of a good producer.

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<v Doc>Make sure that you're on mute always.

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<v Doc>But no, we're at 99. Episode 99 today. And 100 will be next week.

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<v Katie>Great.

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<v Doc>We're excited. We're going to bring a birthday cake. Yeah.

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<v Doc>All right, Kaze, what are we talking about today?

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<v Katie>Well, we are on like an update journey over the last couple of episodes.

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<v Katie>And so today we're talking about podcast structure.

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<v Katie>So if you missed last week's episode, it actually, the full episode dropped today.

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<v Katie>And we talked all about intros and outros. Well, this is all of the stuff in between.

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<v Katie>So these are companion episodes. Hopefully you can go back if you haven't watched or listened to that one.

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<v Katie>But today we're going to dive into every, all of the different elements that

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<v Katie>you need in order to have a really successful podcast structure.

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<v Katie>But we should keep in mind, as we have been reminding you every single episode,

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<v Katie>This is a uniquely personalized experience.

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<v Katie>So everything that we say here is advice, but you really should be taking that

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<v Katie>and making your own, testing and trying, making iterations and changes as you

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<v Katie>go, and just getting a little bit better every single time.

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<v Katie>That's what we're doing. We're just, we're in it to get better.

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<v Doc>Listen, I am here for this. I love this so much, especially because I was editing

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<v Doc>something yesterday and it ran across one of my rants about like all strategy is autobiographical.

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<v Doc>Because I have watched not just myself, a whole bunch of our friends,

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<v Doc>a whole bunch of us included, like try to run down the rabbit hole of somebody else's strategy.

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<v Doc>And it just doesn't work. Like it just doesn't.

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<v Doc>I haven't found, okay, I'll take it back. I have found one strategy ever that

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<v Doc>somebody else has come up with that I think kind of works just the way it is for me.

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<v Doc>Always you have to make adjustments right and

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<v Doc>so i think it's easier to explain it from the aspect of if we were doing some

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<v Doc>kind of um culinary situation right and so in this culinary situation we're

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<v Doc>learning all these really cool things but it's like oh you know what um,

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<v Doc>Scarlett can't eat tree berries. So when we get to the part about,

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<v Doc>you know, some kind of blueberry, whatever, you're like, all right,

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<v Doc>I'm going to just substitute that with apples.

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<v Doc>That she's cool with apples, but blueberries doesn't work for her.

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<v Doc>Right? Which sounds like a weird allergy, except for my niece, Ava.

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<v Doc>She can't eat tree berries. I don't know what that, I never heard of that before.

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<v Katie>I never heard of a tree berry before. I have some research.

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<v Doc>I guess maybe it's tree nuts. Maybe the berry part is just berries in general.

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<v Doc>But I was like kid you're killing me because

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<v Doc>like I used to love our blueberry cheesecake at the holidays

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<v Doc>and now we don't get that but um yeah

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<v Doc>so you don't mean like not being the vegan going

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<v Doc>to Ruth Chris and yelling at them because they don't have something on the menu

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<v Doc>it's Ruth Chris Steakhouse like that's not their job they're not thinking about

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<v Doc>you and so I think a lot of people get get caught up just trying to pick up

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<v Doc>this thing because it sounds like a shortcut and what I have found almost in every situation.

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<v Doc>And thank you honestly to Kat who first put this nugget in my head and then

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<v Doc>the nugget grew like mycelium.

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<v Doc>Kat said a long time ago, don't download another Notion template, just stop.

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<v Doc>And I was like, why? They're kind of cool. And she goes, how much time is when

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<v Doc>you go in there and you get into a corner because it doesn't work the way your brain thinks?

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<v Doc>And I'm like, oh, pretty much always. And then I don't know how to get out of

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<v Doc>this corner because I'm not Notion like you. Here's the reason why we're having this call.

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<v Doc>She goes, yeah, you can look at them for inspiration, but you should probably

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<v Doc>never really use a template because A, you're never going to learn how to use Notion.

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<v Doc>And then B, it's never going to be what you want. And so you're always working with a broken system.

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<v Doc>And I was like, Cap freaking Moverhill, top of the morning to you.

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<v Doc>So thank you for that. And yeah, before we start, I want to say something real quick to Natalie.

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<v Doc>It's kind of funny because she dropped the question. What's the best strategy

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<v Doc>to help narrow the focus and topping for her first podcast and crafting a name for it?

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<v Doc>And well, I mean, it's kind of sort of almost what we're talking about today.

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<v Katie>Well, I actually want to answer this one because yeah, structure brings focus

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<v Katie>is like the theme of today's episode.

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<v Katie>I will say, Natalie, if it is helpful for you, I've been living in a world for the last,

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<v Katie>probably like actively for the last year where I'm using ChatGPT and a number

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<v Katie>of other different AI tools to help me think through some of these things.

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<v Katie>So if you're really struggling with what is my focus, what kind of topics, episode ideas,

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<v Katie>outlines, all of the sidekick intern work, outsource that to your favorite AI

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<v Katie>tool, whatever one you think works best for you or helps you do it.

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<v Katie>And honestly, like, and shout out to Jeff C., another incredible podcaster, part of the Ecamm fam.

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<v Katie>He's, like, got me really thinking about it. Like, he literally just talks into his phone.

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<v Katie>Like, talks, not types, talks to his AI, you know, to his AI overlord or assistant in this case.

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<v Katie>But that really helped me, like, thinking through, okay...

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<v Katie>Actually, I think I want to have a show on movies. I think I really want to

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<v Katie>only talk about 80s movies.

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<v Katie>I really want it to feel very fun and casual, hear a couple of my favorite movies.

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<v Katie>Just talk to AI that way and say, I need a focus. I need some topic ideas.

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<v Katie>I need some episode ideas. And then as it starts giving you that feedback,

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<v Katie>start helping, like, use that tool to help you put that into a structure.

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<v Katie>Like, okay, actually, I like, you know, these three topics that you gave me.

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<v Katie>Like, and I really like this kind of, you know, this show is an example.

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<v Katie>How can I, how can I feed that in and build that into a structure?

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<v Katie>So not to pass the buck, but I think we're living in such a cool time where

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<v Katie>there's just so many tools that simplify what used to be really hard for creative people, right?

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<v Katie>Like if you're a creative person, it's really hard to think through like what

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<v Katie>the best structure is, what the best topics are.

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<v Katie>You just want to be creative and just want to be able to see that.

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<v Katie>And in follow-up, like Natalie is asking about AI prompts.

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<v Katie>I don't even have a prompt. i'm literally just talking to it as if it's a person

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<v Katie>i'm i'm literally saying

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<v Doc>I have a video on my channel how's.

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<v Katie>It going like

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<v Doc>I'm looking for it right now i'm going to send it to you in a second but

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<v Doc>i i've done three videos on my channel showing people how to just talk to it

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<v Doc>and just have it what i had to do was i was trying to develop a brand voice

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<v Doc>and i had it interview me for a brand voice and i the reason why i needed to

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<v Doc>help me do a brand voice is because it's not just my voice is my voice and Mary Lou.

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<v Doc>And I wanted to make sure that we had some decent representation that would cover both she and I.

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<v Doc>So basically all I did was I, Chad, sorry, I just used the name. Hey, Chad.

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<v Doc>And then we just started talking and I've had that video on my channel.

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<v Doc>I have two of them, one with Chad and one with Jim and I, and then I had another

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<v Doc>one where I'm just doing it randomly.

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<v Doc>So yeah, I will find that link for you and send it to you in the chat in just a second.

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<v Katie>I love, I love that. So yeah, I honestly, like, I can't say that enough.

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<v Katie>Like the, you be the creative person with your fun ideas and have used these

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<v Katie>tools to be the nerdy sidekick that gives you all of the structure for it.

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<v Katie>Honestly, today's episode brought to you by Chad. I was like,

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<v Katie>I want to talk about this. Please

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<v Katie>put these, you know, please put these ideas into a structure for me.

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<v Katie>I literally like the outline that I'm looking at right now, entirely brought to you by ChatGPT.

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<v Katie>My fun ideas, but it structured it all in a way that was just approachable for

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<v Katie>me to reference and make sure that we're going through all of the content in

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<v Katie>the way that we want to go through it.

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<v Katie>So yeah, it goes a really long way.

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<v Katie>I'm just reviewing actually to make sure that we're not missing anything.

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<v Katie>Doc, I want to get your vibe. So you've been doing podcasting for forever.

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<v Katie>If I say episode structure to you, what are some of your favorite kinds of episodes

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<v Katie>as far as structure goes what are

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<v Katie>talk me through some examples i know like i know in my mind how you structure

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<v Katie>most of your shows but what's your perfect or your favorite kind of structure

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<v Katie>for a podcast episode well

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<v Doc>Okay so a couple of different things for me from a listener standpoint i love

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<v Doc>a good news show and maybe and And I don't mean like news, like,

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<v Doc>and hey, the weather's going to be, holy crap, 64.

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<v Doc>That's freezing. The weather's going to be 64 degrees a day kind of news show.

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<v Doc>So, for instance, I've been in tech forever and a day.

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<v Doc>And we always had this sort of idea of the morning tech news show.

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<v Doc>Mac OS Ken is one of my favorites. Of course, our friends, Dave Hamilton and

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<v Doc>from Mac Geek Gab and those guys are the best.

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<v Doc>So it's like taking something from an industry that we know and love and basically

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<v Doc>give a rundown on the things that I may have missed if I'm out here trying to

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<v Doc>curate, curate, Jesus, Doc,

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<v Doc>trying to curate all that knowledge myself, right?

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<v Doc>So going in and finding a show like that, I just absolutely love.

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<v Doc>And then when it comes to like trying to teach someone something,

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<v Doc>I sort of like the idea of say what you're going to talk about,

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<v Doc>like we just did, and then talk about it like we're fixing to do and then close

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<v Doc>it up into like a little bundle.

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<v Doc>But most importantly, put an impact or an actionable thing at the end.

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<v Doc>I feel like way too many people out here teaching people stuff,

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<v Doc>but don't give anybody the next step. and everybody is done with your lesson

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<v Doc>going, okay, cool, fam. What's the next step? And they don't know.

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<v Doc>So yeah, I think that's it for me.

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<v Katie>I think you literally just covered it. So according to our friend Chad,

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<v Katie>I asked Chad, here is what the ideal podcast episode structure is so that you

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<v Katie>could be informed with all of us.

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<v Katie>So according to Chad GPT, the ideal podcast episode structure starts with a

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<v Katie>hook, an intro, right? We talked about that last week.

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<v Katie>So how can you grab attention immediately? How can you set expectations,

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<v Katie>welcome people, start kind of building excitement for what topic you're talking

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<v Katie>about, you know, all the different things that make up your show.

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<v Katie>So all the different branded elements, maybe that's an intro,

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<v Katie>you know, intro scene, like music, like what we did for bringing on this show,

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<v Katie>all the different pieces of kind of the hook and the welcome in the intro.

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<v Katie>Then there's the main content, right? So like the actual nuts and bolts of your podcast.

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<v Katie>Some people segment this up into different content, like blocks, right?

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<v Katie>So like, I keep talking about the Tony and Ryan podcast, which I love,

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<v Katie>they have specific segments.

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<v Katie>Some segments only run on particular days because they're a daily podcast.

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<v Katie>Some segments are all the time. For example, they now added a new segment where

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<v Katie>they Google things on Fridays.

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<v Katie>So you can tune in on Friday for their let's Google this together segment.

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<v Katie>And so throughout their show, they jokingly, if there's something that they

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<v Katie>don't know, they literally have their producer write it down so that they can

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<v Katie>Google it on Friday. So that's a segment, an idea of a segment.

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<v Katie>Another could be, you know, like this is the part of the show where we go to

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<v Katie>voicemails and we take voicemails. That could be a segment.

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<v Katie>So that's an option. We actually don't segment this show.

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<v Katie>We started by doing that and it just didn't really seem like it worked for us.

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<v Katie>So we just kind of have the main content that we go through in a very conversational

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<v Katie>way and we take questions throughout.

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<v Katie>So that's the main content of the show. Then obviously, as Doc said,

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<v Katie>then you would move to a call to action, right?

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<v Katie>Or maybe it's an engagement break. So it's like, what can people do next?

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<v Katie>You know, how are you listening to your audience and kind of connecting with them?

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<v Katie>What are the different ways? How can they give you feedback?

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<v Katie>Are there like polls or quizzes or things that you can pull through or contest, etc.?

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<v Katie>And then there's the conclusion or the outro, which again, we talked about last

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<v Katie>week, where you're going to recap and summarize everything, send them on their

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<v Katie>way, you know, let them know where they can connect with you if that's important

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<v Katie>to you, or how to continue listening or continue watching.

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<v Katie>So it really is that simple.

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<v Katie>Like that's the structure. It's that simple. That's the ideal,

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<v Katie>according to the internet, podcast episode structure.

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<v Katie>But you have a lot of flexibility in what each of those elements are.

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<v Katie>And there's nothing saying that you can't change them. We're literally changing

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<v Katie>this show starting today, right?

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<v Katie>What we learned last week in intros and outros, we applied to today's show.

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<v Katie>So again, it's the hook, the intro, the main content or the body of the episode,

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<v Katie>the call to action slash like engaging with your audience.

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<v Katie>And then the conclusion and the outro, that's it. Those are the pieces of your show.

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<v Katie>Everything else under those is completely personalized, editable,

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<v Katie>changeable, can ebb and flow as your show grows over the years.

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<v Katie>Anything i missed doc what do you think

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<v Doc>No i i love that so the breakdown makes a

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<v Doc>whole lot of sense and i think the biggest thing is assuming

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<v Doc>that it has to be like the total

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<v Doc>smoke show out of the gate um like i

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<v Doc>had the weird yeah pleasure of

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<v Doc>growing up during the very beginning

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<v Doc>i remember espn day one like

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<v Doc>i remember watching the very first episode and

00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:47.260

<v Doc>what it looked like then in comparison

00:14:47.260 --> 00:14:50.200

<v Doc>to now is so absolutely crazy

00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:55.140

<v Doc>and it isn't just the tech like they just sat at a table and talked sports for

00:14:55.140 --> 00:15:01.620

<v Doc>a whole half an hour which was on freaking heard of the idea of a sports thing

00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:06.480

<v Doc>not being a five minute segment in the middle of the normal drab of what's going

00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.000

<v Doc>on in your local community was, was just crazy.

00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:14.040

<v Doc>And the funny thing is back then we didn't have cable yet. So I had this boom

00:15:14.040 --> 00:15:15.720

<v Doc>box radio that had a little TV on it.

00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:21.520

<v Doc>And I had a, uh, uh, like a Hill brother coffee can stuck with a wire and I

00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:23.520

<v Doc>can point it a certain way and steal the signal.

00:15:23.640 --> 00:15:25.980

<v Doc>And it would come into the little teeny TV that was in the radio.

00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:29.100

<v Doc>And I used to just watch it. Like it was, it was

00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:32.120

<v Doc>the best thing on TV and the fact that it just kept repeating was

00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.200

<v Doc>just incredible to me so you know

00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.060

<v Doc>don't don't think you have to come out of the gate with this

00:15:38.060 --> 00:15:44.900

<v Doc>amazing situation and then I also look at things like uh Oprah who went from

00:15:44.900 --> 00:15:50.240

<v Doc>this elaborate network and she still has but I mean her TV show and the whole

00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:55.360

<v Doc>nine yards to now she sits in her backyard in Maui with a short SM7B.

00:15:55.940 --> 00:16:01.160

<v Doc>And a cup of coffee and she talks to people who are richer than any of us will

00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:07.100

<v Doc>ever be and that's her show now her show is her sitting in the backyard with

00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:10.680

<v Doc>an SM7B which I'm doing right now but I'm in the basement.

00:16:12.049 --> 00:16:17.649

<v Doc>Oprah and I are using the exact same tech right now. So just know that your

00:16:17.649 --> 00:16:23.089

<v Doc>show can both grow, but at the same time, don't worry that it has to be some

00:16:23.089 --> 00:16:26.509

<v Doc>elaborate production that will come with you like anything else.

00:16:26.649 --> 00:16:32.749

<v Doc>You become a better walker, better talker, hopefully better driver as you go along.

00:16:32.989 --> 00:16:36.889

<v Doc>And I've been to Katie's neighborhood, better driver, miss that community.

00:16:39.029 --> 00:16:42.469

<v Katie>Oh my gosh. Sometimes the ideas fail, too.

00:16:42.749 --> 00:16:46.129

<v Katie>And those are the learning moments, right?

00:16:46.249 --> 00:16:50.249

<v Katie>So when I started the VHS Club podcast, in my mind, I was like,

00:16:50.709 --> 00:16:51.589

<v Katie>okay, well, it's movies.

00:16:51.669 --> 00:16:55.369

<v Katie>We're talking movies, talking old movies. And I worked at Blockbuster for years.

00:16:55.529 --> 00:16:58.909

<v Katie>So I was like, oh, it would be really fun to have a segment where we share Blockbuster

00:16:58.909 --> 00:17:00.949

<v Katie>stories or video rental movie stories.

00:17:01.089 --> 00:17:03.989

<v Katie>And we did that, I think, for one episode, maybe two.

00:17:04.209 --> 00:17:08.529

<v Katie>And it just felt like, ugh. It was taking time away from talking about the movies.

00:17:08.549 --> 00:17:10.009

<v Katie>It just like, it didn't feel good.

00:17:10.189 --> 00:17:14.429

<v Katie>I don't think anyone really overly enjoyed it. No one was like begging for us to do it the next week.

00:17:14.889 --> 00:17:18.409

<v Katie>So, you know, so we, so we just scrapped it. And so, you know,

00:17:18.469 --> 00:17:20.449

<v Katie>now we don't, we don't have any kind of segments.

00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:23.849

<v Katie>Are there other segment ideas or like things that I want to do with the show

00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:25.589

<v Katie>going forward? Yeah, probably.

00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:27.869

<v Katie>Will I test some of them out? Yeah. Will some of them work?

00:17:28.189 --> 00:17:32.569

<v Katie>Maybe. Will some not? Yeah, probably. Like there's probably going to be some that are epic failures.

00:17:32.709 --> 00:17:35.409

<v Katie>So yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like, I think you need to have

00:17:35.409 --> 00:17:40.489

<v Katie>obviously like like, a structure for your show, but that could mean anything.

00:17:40.769 --> 00:17:45.309

<v Katie>Like, you know, again, like, the point is to actually just do the show and to

00:17:45.309 --> 00:17:47.769

<v Katie>be constantly listening to what your community is saying.

00:17:48.968 --> 00:17:51.948

<v Katie>Maybe there's some ideas that they're going to suggest to you that you didn't

00:17:51.948 --> 00:17:55.988

<v Katie>even think about, you know, like for this show, again, like the intro that we

00:17:55.988 --> 00:17:59.308

<v Katie>were doing was a countdown timer and we were like, oh, maybe this doesn't actually work.

00:17:59.468 --> 00:18:02.588

<v Katie>And maybe people would actually just like to see what we're doing behind the scenes.

00:18:02.748 --> 00:18:06.428

<v Katie>So this was, you know, our first take at trying this out. Maybe you all hate

00:18:06.428 --> 00:18:07.648

<v Katie>it and we don't do it again.

00:18:07.828 --> 00:18:10.788

<v Katie>Or maybe you really enjoy it. But yeah, I totally agree, Doc.

00:18:10.928 --> 00:18:16.148

<v Katie>I think it's worthwhile always kind of seeing what other people are doing as well.

00:18:16.148 --> 00:18:21.608

<v Katie>Because as you said, like people who like, I mean, Oprah is doing cool and crazy,

00:18:21.808 --> 00:18:22.788

<v Katie>interesting things that you

00:18:22.788 --> 00:18:27.348

<v Katie>could replicate. Like you, you can now replicate in your home. It's nuts.

00:18:27.728 --> 00:18:32.768

<v Doc>You don't need a studio audience and hide a bunch of books under the chair and things of that nature.

00:18:33.048 --> 00:18:37.648

<v Doc>You know, like in a way, I'm looking at the overall outline that they,

00:18:37.788 --> 00:18:43.428

<v Doc>I just made chat non-binary, but being a computer, it's absolutely binary.

00:18:43.648 --> 00:18:44.628

<v Doc>That's how computers work.

00:18:46.028 --> 00:18:49.008

<v Doc>Um so the i like the breakdown

00:18:49.008 --> 00:18:51.708

<v Doc>of the sort of hook of the intro and then the

00:18:51.708 --> 00:18:54.768

<v Doc>main content body then the call to action conclusion things

00:18:54.768 --> 00:19:00.048

<v Doc>like that and i think that is fine but i also think that you can make it work

00:19:00.048 --> 00:19:04.948

<v Doc>for you how it works some people depending on the type of show that they're

00:19:04.948 --> 00:19:09.348

<v Doc>going to do are going to throw a massive call to action in the beginning because

00:19:09.348 --> 00:19:12.048

<v Doc>maybe that call to asking, asking,

00:19:12.588 --> 00:19:14.548

<v Doc>that call to asking, see what I was saying?

00:19:14.768 --> 00:19:21.348

<v Doc>Maybe that call to asking, asking is to ask the community a question that you

00:19:21.348 --> 00:19:23.388

<v Doc>are going to then talk about during the show.

00:19:23.688 --> 00:19:26.988

<v Doc>I've even seen shows that large where it's like, okay, guys,

00:19:27.068 --> 00:19:30.248

<v Doc>you guys are going to give us the topic today. And then we're going to run with that.

00:19:30.768 --> 00:19:33.508

<v Doc>Lou and I have done that. Now that I think about it, we have gone in and say,

00:19:33.588 --> 00:19:35.028

<v Doc>Hey, we've just been traveling.

00:19:35.248 --> 00:19:39.108

<v Doc>This is a hot mess. You guys tell Tell us a topic, we read it in,

00:19:39.228 --> 00:19:42.068

<v Doc>we get like 10 answers and we just pick one and we run with it.

00:19:42.448 --> 00:19:45.228

<v Doc>Couple of things that are important about that.

00:19:45.348 --> 00:19:48.728

<v Doc>And this is where I'm gonna use words that I can't absolutely stand,

00:19:48.948 --> 00:19:50.748

<v Doc>but I'm only gonna use this for your clarity.

00:19:51.804 --> 00:19:52.544

<v Doc>Okay.

00:19:53.444 --> 00:19:54.064

<v Katie>I'm excited.

00:19:54.264 --> 00:19:57.884

<v Doc>First of all, I think confidence is oversold and it's total BS.

00:19:58.104 --> 00:20:02.784

<v Doc>If you don't trust you, why the hell should I trust you? So like, I'm not confident.

00:20:03.044 --> 00:20:06.344

<v Doc>Then don't sell it. If you're not confident, quit.

00:20:06.604 --> 00:20:09.744

<v Doc>I'm going to be an a-hole and say that because if you don't believe you,

00:20:09.884 --> 00:20:12.124

<v Doc>why should any of us, you're basically wasting our time.

00:20:12.284 --> 00:20:16.784

<v Doc>If you don't have confidence in your knowledge, I trust Katie to know everything

00:20:16.784 --> 00:20:21.764

<v Doc>there is to know for, to help me. If I wanted to start sowing,

00:20:22.044 --> 00:20:26.004

<v Doc>I ain't going to say the word, weebles, wobbles, warbles.

00:20:26.204 --> 00:20:29.204

<v Doc>Dang it, I always get it right. Whatever those fluffy things are, dang it.

00:20:29.364 --> 00:20:32.064

<v Katie>And you crochet them, but you're close. This is why you trust me.

00:20:32.644 --> 00:20:35.184

<v Doc>See, you know what I'm saying? Sorry, I even used all the wrong words,

00:20:35.184 --> 00:20:39.844

<v Doc>but if I was going to jump into this game, Katie has enough back knowledge to

00:20:39.844 --> 00:20:43.504

<v Doc>help me through it, and she would not blink an eye to explain it.

00:20:43.564 --> 00:20:44.704

<v Doc>Oh my God, you're going to love this.

00:20:44.844 --> 00:20:47.904

<v Doc>All you got to do and so and so and so right if we're

00:20:47.904 --> 00:20:50.964

<v Doc>going to go to find mexican food in

00:20:50.964 --> 00:20:54.684

<v Doc>in headquarters katie's going to be like listen you even got to go that far

00:20:54.684 --> 00:20:58.424

<v Doc>fam you walk across the street but don't jaywalk ken will get mad go to the

00:20:58.424 --> 00:21:03.244

<v Doc>corner and walk around but just go across the street go to and talk to juan

00:21:03.244 --> 00:21:08.224

<v Doc>juan juan juan or maria because that's the staff yeah no joke,

00:21:09.184 --> 00:21:13.584

<v Doc>that's the staff and you know she knows exactly like what to get or whatever

00:21:13.584 --> 00:21:20.204

<v Doc>so you already know enough and then sort of second guessing yourself will come off in the show.

00:21:21.196 --> 00:21:27.376

<v Doc>Right. So in theory, you shouldn't even fire up the show unless you are engaged

00:21:27.376 --> 00:21:31.336

<v Doc>enough in the topic where you could talk for at least a half an hour without

00:21:31.336 --> 00:21:33.736

<v Doc>anybody prodding you or prompting you.

00:21:33.876 --> 00:21:38.856

<v Doc>If you can do that, you're good to go. And no, no, please do not understand

00:21:38.856 --> 00:21:40.356

<v Doc>that you have to be an expert.

00:21:40.836 --> 00:21:47.416

<v Doc>I could be so absolutely curious in the publishing world that I have not published

00:21:47.416 --> 00:21:50.496

<v Doc>a thing. But Katie worked there for a long time.

00:21:50.676 --> 00:21:53.856

<v Doc>So I have at least 100 questions for Katie.

00:21:54.396 --> 00:22:02.776

<v Doc>I can generate a hundred episode podcast about how to get into the publishing world.

00:22:02.936 --> 00:22:05.876

<v Doc>What's the dark side? What's the light side? What are the pluses,

00:22:05.976 --> 00:22:11.156

<v Doc>the minus, where to go, how to do, how to have weird flat tire road trips,

00:22:11.416 --> 00:22:13.276

<v Doc>like the whole nine yards.

00:22:13.276 --> 00:22:18.496

<v Doc>I could have an entire 100-episode podcast with Katie talking about that.

00:22:18.776 --> 00:22:23.376

<v Doc>And then we'd probably come up with more questions, so it would turn into 150.

00:22:24.436 --> 00:22:29.936

<v Doc>And that could be the show. No one says a podcast doesn't need to have a finite end.

00:22:30.096 --> 00:22:36.276

<v Doc>The most famous podcast of all, Serial, 12 episodes or 15, whatever. You know the answer.

00:22:36.676 --> 00:22:40.656

<v Doc>But that was it. And then it disappeared three years, and then they came back

00:22:40.656 --> 00:22:45.936

<v Doc>and did another one. But it started out the gate intending to only be that many episodes.

00:22:46.936 --> 00:22:50.656

<v Katie>Yep. This is a great question coming in from Joel. I'm going to take this one

00:22:50.656 --> 00:22:52.596

<v Katie>because I'm the nerdy organizational geek.

00:22:53.116 --> 00:22:56.716

<v Katie>Joel wants to know about building out your content calendar well in advance.

00:22:56.996 --> 00:23:00.416

<v Katie>Do you recommend doing that? Or do you recommend shooting it all in batches?

00:23:00.556 --> 00:23:03.796

<v Katie>Or one at a time planning an episode and shooting it and on to the next?

00:23:04.376 --> 00:23:10.876

<v Katie>Okay, so we are definitely, again, then the answer to this is going to be unique

00:23:10.876 --> 00:23:18.776

<v Katie>to you, what your time is like, how your mindset works, who you are as a person, a million other things.

00:23:18.916 --> 00:23:23.356

<v Katie>What I will say is everything Doc just said,

00:23:23.816 --> 00:23:29.256

<v Katie>even though I am the most organized, geeky person when it comes to I need to

00:23:29.256 --> 00:23:36.516

<v Katie>have a checklist and a outline and a plan, and I like to schedule things out, both the shows that I do,

00:23:36.716 --> 00:23:40.916

<v Katie>so both my personal show and this one, we very,

00:23:41.236 --> 00:23:46.856

<v Katie>very rarely have more than maybe like a couple of bulleted notes.

00:23:46.856 --> 00:23:49.756

<v Katie>Because as Doc said, we know our stuff.

00:23:49.916 --> 00:23:53.656

<v Katie>So like we know, like if we've decided that we're going to talk about, you know,

00:23:53.896 --> 00:23:57.876

<v Katie>podcast structure, we've done podcasting enough, and we've bumped up in enough

00:23:57.876 --> 00:24:01.376

<v Katie>different issues, and we know the ins and outs of it well enough to be able

00:24:01.376 --> 00:24:05.236

<v Katie>to talk about that, whether or not I have an outline in front of me,

00:24:05.416 --> 00:24:07.296

<v Katie>whether or not I've done detailed notes, all of that.

00:24:07.416 --> 00:24:11.156

<v Katie>Same for movies, right? Like I can just watch the movie and then I can get on

00:24:11.156 --> 00:24:16.116

<v Katie>the show and talk about my experiences watching the movie. Like I don't need a huge outline.

00:24:16.777 --> 00:24:21.037

<v Katie>I will say for like batching and recording episodes, for us,

00:24:21.197 --> 00:24:25.357

<v Katie>what is easy and most effective is for us to live stream our recording process,

00:24:25.637 --> 00:24:30.977

<v Katie>which then requires us to schedule it out so that you all know when to show

00:24:30.977 --> 00:24:32.677

<v Katie>up, what the topic is going to be, et cetera.

00:24:32.797 --> 00:24:34.397

<v Katie>So we are a couple weeks out on

00:24:34.397 --> 00:24:39.637

<v Katie>the episodes because we need a thumbnail created. We need a description.

00:24:39.897 --> 00:24:42.077

<v Katie>We need to get all that information into YouTube so that you,

00:24:42.337 --> 00:24:45.437

<v Katie>the live audience who join us every week, know what we're going to talk about.

00:24:45.577 --> 00:24:49.817

<v Katie>But that's it. Like, I don't have a huge content calendar that has like the

00:24:49.817 --> 00:24:51.937

<v Katie>next six months of episodes worked out.

00:24:52.077 --> 00:24:55.337

<v Katie>Because again, as Doc said, like, maybe there's questions that are going to come from all of you.

00:24:55.477 --> 00:25:00.797

<v Katie>Maybe there's like some crazy new update, you know, at YouTube or in podcasting

00:25:00.797 --> 00:25:02.457

<v Katie>in general that we want to discuss and talk about.

00:25:02.577 --> 00:25:06.237

<v Katie>So we have a lot of flexibility, but that doesn't mean we don't have a structure,

00:25:06.477 --> 00:25:10.297

<v Katie>right? So we have a structure, we have a plan, but we know our stuff.

00:25:10.397 --> 00:25:13.237

<v Katie>And so we don't need to kind of overthink all of the details.

00:25:13.637 --> 00:25:17.657

<v Katie>And what we commit to is showing up when we say we're going to show up, right?

00:25:17.817 --> 00:25:21.817

<v Katie>So we are going to be here every Tuesday, 12pm Eastern live.

00:25:21.937 --> 00:25:24.837

<v Katie>And then the episode releases the following Tuesday, right? Like that's our

00:25:24.837 --> 00:25:25.777

<v Katie>structure. That's our format.

00:25:25.937 --> 00:25:29.877

<v Katie>So if that's batch recording for you, great. If that works really well for your

00:25:29.877 --> 00:25:31.777

<v Katie>brain, and that's what like what you want to do, awesome.

00:25:32.017 --> 00:25:36.137

<v Katie>If that's that you need a really detailed, like checklist and to do list,

00:25:36.137 --> 00:25:38.797

<v Katie>and you need a really detailed outline, also awesome.

00:25:39.077 --> 00:25:44.097

<v Katie>But you probably don't need a huge amount of details that are going to distract

00:25:44.097 --> 00:25:48.157

<v Katie>you from the actual content itself because hopefully your podcast is about something

00:25:48.157 --> 00:25:49.277

<v Katie>that you're passionate about.

00:25:49.617 --> 00:25:53.437

<v Katie>And as Doc said, you could turn the camera on and just speak about.

00:25:53.697 --> 00:25:57.537

<v Katie>So research is great, but knowledge and confidence are better.

00:25:57.817 --> 00:26:03.297

<v Katie>So don't stray into an area where you can't just turn on a camera and answer

00:26:03.297 --> 00:26:05.517

<v Katie>questions or speak about it.

00:26:05.517 --> 00:26:13.017

<v Doc>Yeah, and well, if you think about it, your show is really unique in the sense that...

00:26:15.570 --> 00:26:22.850

<v Doc>Sometimes something would happen where you might want to go and talk about a subject. Oh, my God.

00:26:23.030 --> 00:26:27.330

<v Doc>Talk about a subject because it's lively or it matches a current thing,

00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:29.290

<v Doc>which is why I personally hate batching.

00:26:29.390 --> 00:26:31.510

<v Doc>I like to be topical.

00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:35.950

<v Doc>For instance, we just lost Quincy, one of the greatest.

00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:40.570

<v Doc>And so you could want to talk about The Color Purple or you could want to talk

00:26:40.570 --> 00:26:42.670

<v Doc>about The Wiz or you could talk

00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:46.830

<v Doc>about Keep On Keeping On. These are movies that, you know, Quincy made.

00:26:48.310 --> 00:26:52.990

<v Doc>And it's like everybody knows about his music game, but how many people know

00:26:52.990 --> 00:26:55.030

<v Doc>about his movies, right?

00:26:55.210 --> 00:27:01.770

<v Doc>Or, you know, maybe you happen to meet Rashida at a conference and get her on the show, you know?

00:27:02.050 --> 00:27:04.070

<v Doc>And so I like the idea.

00:27:04.490 --> 00:27:09.110

<v Doc>Okay, here's my problem. My problem with batching is my same problem I have

00:27:09.110 --> 00:27:10.230

<v Doc>with over planning stuff.

00:27:11.110 --> 00:27:15.930

<v Doc>I am ex-military. Thank you, Chris. The only other one of me I see in the chat,

00:27:16.070 --> 00:27:17.450

<v Doc>anybody else represent yourselves.

00:27:18.290 --> 00:27:25.190

<v Doc>When we have a contingency, we know what to do because we train for problems.

00:27:26.070 --> 00:27:32.190

<v Doc>You guys who plan perfect never plan for what to do in a contingency.

00:27:32.930 --> 00:27:39.690

<v Doc>You just don't. Why? You guys don't have that training or you think everything is going to be all good.

00:27:39.830 --> 00:27:45.610

<v Doc>And Mike Tyson does explain it to you. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.

00:27:46.070 --> 00:27:51.930

<v Doc>So what happens when people who plan for perfect and never plan for a contingency,

00:27:52.050 --> 00:27:59.870

<v Doc>they get smacked in the face from anything from a snow storm to the internet went bad.

00:28:00.030 --> 00:28:05.410

<v Doc>The guests didn't show up or, you know, the baby is crying. Co-host got a fever.

00:28:07.770 --> 00:28:13.650

<v Doc>They just like lose it. They don't know what to do. Head off everything crooked. So,

00:28:15.472 --> 00:28:21.972

<v Doc>If you're going to be a hyper planner, please also plan for what do you do when it doesn't go right?

00:28:22.132 --> 00:28:26.072

<v Doc>Because if not, then you come to the Internet telling everybody of these fancy

00:28:26.072 --> 00:28:29.712

<v Doc>words like burnout and overwhelm and make me want to hurt you.

00:28:30.512 --> 00:28:35.892

<v Doc>Because there's no such freaking thing. Number one, it's not in a DSM five, not even close.

00:28:36.272 --> 00:28:40.992

<v Doc>And overwhelm is hurricane, earthquake, Gulf War.

00:28:42.392 --> 00:28:45.752

<v Doc>My podcast host didn't show up and now I got to do more stuff than I'm used

00:28:45.752 --> 00:28:50.432

<v Doc>to do I'm sorry you don't get to use that word that word does not match the occasion,

00:28:51.072 --> 00:28:56.512

<v Doc>and it's unfair to people who actually go through difficult stuff that a bunch

00:28:56.512 --> 00:29:00.532

<v Doc>of boxes in Ecamm triggers the word overwhelming your brain because social media

00:29:00.532 --> 00:29:05.652

<v Doc>made it cute it's like social media got people calling OCD when they don't have OCD.

00:29:07.372 --> 00:29:10.472

<v Doc>And that's why I get so frustrated about it so if

00:29:10.472 --> 00:29:13.672

<v Doc>you are going to be a hyper planner plan for contingency so

00:29:13.672 --> 00:29:18.212

<v Doc>your brain doesn't break when it doesn't go your way and

00:29:18.212 --> 00:29:21.532

<v Doc>that that's what i'm sorry it sounds mean that's my military training i am ready

00:29:21.532 --> 00:29:27.752

<v Doc>for everything and i cannot do what i did in the army but trust me we have enough

00:29:27.752 --> 00:29:31.572

<v Doc>food in the house for when the hurricane hits hawaii we probably chris too because

00:29:31.572 --> 00:29:34.692

<v Doc>he lives down the street from me we are not the guys at costco the day that

00:29:34.692 --> 00:29:37.332

<v Doc>they tell us the hurricane coming trying to buy toilet paper and water.

00:29:37.492 --> 00:29:41.752

<v Doc>I guarantee you, without even knowing Chris that well, other than he lives down the street,

00:29:42.686 --> 00:29:46.746

<v Doc>He got water and toilet paper and Spam in his house if that's what they eat.

00:29:46.866 --> 00:29:51.486

<v Doc>He has meals ready to eat because that's our training. So we're ready, right?

00:29:52.186 --> 00:29:55.906

<v Doc>The news is going to come on today. Oh, there's going to be a big storm Thursday.

00:29:56.306 --> 00:30:00.346

<v Doc>Bro, you couldn't find a drink of water in any store in the state of Hawaii

00:30:00.346 --> 00:30:01.906

<v Doc>because all these people are panicking because they're not.

00:30:02.266 --> 00:30:06.866

<v Doc>We get that every three months, fam. How do you not have the same water from the last time?

00:30:08.106 --> 00:30:12.246

<v Doc>Anyway, I'm sorry. I just went sideways. Anyways, that's my only problem with

00:30:12.246 --> 00:30:13.506

<v Doc>the batching mentality.

00:30:14.126 --> 00:30:16.886

<v Katie>Well, it is interesting. So again, I'm going through my notes.

00:30:17.006 --> 00:30:18.726

<v Katie>So I actually have notes today.

00:30:18.946 --> 00:30:24.106

<v Katie>But the cool thing about having notes, but also just knowing your stuff,

00:30:24.166 --> 00:30:30.626

<v Katie>is that it allows you to go off and take questions and share experiences and

00:30:30.626 --> 00:30:32.966

<v Katie>actually benefit your community with the answer,

00:30:33.046 --> 00:30:35.526

<v Katie>right? So I think it's really, it's cool.

00:30:35.826 --> 00:30:38.306

<v Katie>But what I wanted to point out, which I actually think is hilarious.

00:30:38.306 --> 00:30:41.906

<v Katie>Again, I had ChatGPT help me put together this outline, right?

00:30:42.086 --> 00:30:47.166

<v Katie>So it is really funny that ChatGPT confirms exactly what you just said, Doc.

00:30:47.346 --> 00:30:53.686

<v Katie>So in thinking through like in pro tips from AI on how to craft your episode formula, right?

00:30:53.686 --> 00:31:00.926

<v Katie>So it does say, think through a plan and potentially an outline or a script

00:31:00.926 --> 00:31:02.786

<v Katie>if you're a script person. We're obviously not.

00:31:03.446 --> 00:31:07.986

<v Katie>But it says, think through the importance of outlining before recording.

00:31:08.206 --> 00:31:10.866

<v Katie>And then it says, and let's say it for the people in the back,

00:31:11.426 --> 00:31:15.546

<v Katie>balancing detailed planning with room for spontaneity.

00:31:15.546 --> 00:31:18.646

<v Katie>So you like you will not be

00:31:18.646 --> 00:31:21.566

<v Katie>able to do this well in this space if you

00:31:21.566 --> 00:31:26.406

<v Katie>don't as doc said have a backup plan if you don't know that sometimes your plan

00:31:26.406 --> 00:31:30.126

<v Katie>might go to heck and someone you know might ask you a different question you

00:31:30.126 --> 00:31:36.066

<v Katie>might have to just fall back on yourself your knowledge your confidence all

00:31:36.066 --> 00:31:39.626

<v Katie>the stuff that made it so that you started this whole thing in the first place so So again,

00:31:39.926 --> 00:31:44.746

<v Katie>don't do a show on a topic that you can't speak about for, you know,

00:31:45.186 --> 00:31:48.406

<v Katie>I don't know, hundreds of hours or whatever, whatever you thresholds you want

00:31:48.406 --> 00:31:51.126

<v Katie>to give it and do allow some level in your planning.

00:31:51.306 --> 00:31:56.966

<v Katie>I say this as a geeky planner, do allow some level of planning in your podcasting

00:31:56.966 --> 00:32:02.726

<v Katie>structure in your, you know, day to day workflow for your podcast to allow for

00:32:02.726 --> 00:32:05.006

<v Katie>spontaneity or you will be in trouble.

00:32:05.266 --> 00:32:08.006

<v Katie>You will 100% be in trouble. like something will come

00:32:08.006 --> 00:32:12.546

<v Katie>up and you will not know how to deal with it so just have the notes if they

00:32:12.546 --> 00:32:17.086

<v Katie>make you feel better but know that if it doesn't show up or if things go crazy

00:32:17.086 --> 00:32:21.346

<v Katie>or if doc goes off on a crazy tangent that you can get things back on track

00:32:21.346 --> 00:32:24.226

<v Katie>you know your stuff you know how to get through you know how to get through

00:32:24.226 --> 00:32:25.806

<v Katie>it so i think it is really important

00:32:25.806 --> 00:32:31.386

<v Doc>I love it love it and thank you to torah and john who are saying everything

00:32:31.386 --> 00:32:34.226

<v Doc>that people need to hear it drives me crazy to,

00:32:36.546 --> 00:32:42.146

<v Doc>I don't know. Let me call an export. I don't know. Let me Google that for you.

00:32:42.406 --> 00:32:44.866

<v Doc>Just like you said on Tony and Ryan, let's Google it live.

00:32:45.066 --> 00:32:45.986

<v Katie>Let's Google it.

00:32:46.006 --> 00:32:47.866

<v Doc>Google it. Let's Google it Friday. I might not know the answer,

00:32:48.086 --> 00:32:53.006

<v Doc>but I will say that my Google food is a solid black belt.

00:32:53.606 --> 00:32:58.506

<v Doc>So let me go with it. If nothing else, you're going to learn how to Google something properly.

00:32:58.926 --> 00:33:02.706

<v Doc>Right? So I love the idea. I don't know.

00:33:02.866 --> 00:33:06.006

<v Doc>I'll find out like Jal said. But Tora, thank you for that. And John,

00:33:06.166 --> 00:33:10.006

<v Doc>thank you for the follow up, because I think it's important that people hear

00:33:10.006 --> 00:33:13.486

<v Doc>this, especially when we go to we go to like PodFest.

00:33:13.626 --> 00:33:16.466

<v Doc>This was something that came up a lot for me. Well, I've been doing this for

00:33:16.466 --> 00:33:17.546

<v Doc>a year, but I'm no expert.

00:33:17.746 --> 00:33:21.806

<v Doc>I go, you have a year hairstyle on me. I want to hear what you learned in this last year.

00:33:22.166 --> 00:33:25.026

<v Doc>Break that up into 10 episodes and let's go. I'm in.

00:33:25.766 --> 00:33:30.786

<v Doc>Right. People think that, like, you know, you have to be I have a master's degree

00:33:30.786 --> 00:33:33.366

<v Doc>in ancient Greek literature.

00:33:33.366 --> 00:33:36.446

<v Doc>You i don't care bro i'd rather

00:33:36.446 --> 00:33:39.926

<v Doc>learn it from katie because there's a

00:33:39.926 --> 00:33:42.746

<v Doc>uh well it's not even a parasols relationship for us

00:33:42.746 --> 00:33:45.666

<v Doc>i actually know you know you but like i'd rather learn

00:33:45.666 --> 00:33:49.706

<v Doc>it from a friend and i swear to you i've heard this confirmed so many times

00:33:49.706 --> 00:33:54.746

<v Doc>in my head people want to learn from somebody who they can catch right i don't

00:33:54.746 --> 00:33:58.486

<v Doc>want to learn golf from tiger i want to learn golf from saeed because give me

00:33:58.486 --> 00:34:03.166

<v Doc>six months i can catch up to him you know what i mean like i feel like that's a better option.

00:34:03.306 --> 00:34:06.886

<v Doc>I don't want to try to learn it from somebody who's so far ahead of me that

00:34:06.886 --> 00:34:09.726

<v Doc>that becomes unobtainable because that just messes with my psyche.

00:34:09.946 --> 00:34:11.546

<v Doc>And I feel that's most people.

00:34:12.486 --> 00:34:15.946

<v Doc>And Paul is bringing up, let me Google that for you. I brought that up before

00:34:15.946 --> 00:34:18.206

<v Doc>because I asked the chat, how many people remember that website?

00:34:18.346 --> 00:34:19.706

<v Doc>That website was so good.

00:34:19.926 --> 00:34:23.366

<v Doc>And that's because you said Tony and Ryan do the, let's Google this together.

00:34:23.946 --> 00:34:27.226

<v Doc>Like, oh my God, I love that site. That was my favorite well i.

00:34:27.226 --> 00:34:32.546

<v Katie>I love it uh i want to go through some common pitfalls so that hopefully this

00:34:32.546 --> 00:34:36.546

<v Katie>helps some people um again none of these are surprising and we've actually mentioned

00:34:36.546 --> 00:34:43.526

<v Katie>almost all of them in in our in our rambly in our rambly katie and doc way but um okay so

00:34:44.487 --> 00:34:49.127

<v Katie>Common pitfalls and how to avoid them. Number one, overcomplicating everything,

00:34:49.307 --> 00:34:50.507

<v Katie>including your structure, right?

00:34:50.687 --> 00:34:55.067

<v Katie>Like if you overcomplicate it, including the planning and the structure, you are going to fail.

00:34:55.207 --> 00:34:59.407

<v Katie>It's going to not go well. It will be really bumpy. It's not good. Don't do it.

00:34:59.947 --> 00:35:02.747

<v Katie>As an overthinker, I'm with you on it. Let's just not do it.

00:35:03.307 --> 00:35:06.967

<v Katie>Trying to do too much in one episode or in one show, right?

00:35:07.087 --> 00:35:11.327

<v Katie>Like if you fit in so many different segments into an episode,

00:35:11.327 --> 00:35:14.447

<v Katie>it's going to feel like completely crazy.

00:35:14.707 --> 00:35:19.707

<v Katie>So just pick one thing and give it a try. And if it works, then do it again

00:35:19.707 --> 00:35:22.607

<v Katie>next week. And if it doesn't, then replace it with something different.

00:35:23.027 --> 00:35:26.307

<v Katie>Keep it really simple and really focused as much as you're able to.

00:35:26.527 --> 00:35:31.247

<v Katie>So one topic per episode, one movie review, if you're doing movie reviews,

00:35:31.467 --> 00:35:35.827

<v Katie>one, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, one simple thing, right?

00:35:35.987 --> 00:35:38.987

<v Katie>Make it as simple as possible. This next one is Doc's absolute favorite

00:35:38.987 --> 00:35:42.147

<v Katie>i'm ready for him to like nod and give me like a fist bump um

00:35:42.147 --> 00:35:45.347

<v Katie>stop over complicating all of

00:35:45.347 --> 00:35:50.687

<v Katie>the like the tech right so like stop putting nine million different graphics

00:35:50.687 --> 00:35:56.007

<v Katie>on screen and cool transitions and like shabam noises and all the difference

00:35:56.007 --> 00:35:59.347

<v Katie>just because you can do it doesn't mean you should it's just going to make it

00:35:59.347 --> 00:36:04.247

<v Katie>more likely for you to mess up more likely to distract everyone, confuse people.

00:36:05.047 --> 00:36:08.427

<v Katie>Just focus on the content and you. I even, honestly,

00:36:08.687 --> 00:36:13.407

<v Katie>the next phase for us here at The Flow, I think, is even simplifying our graphics

00:36:13.407 --> 00:36:16.607

<v Katie>down, getting just a little bit more gritty so that you're not as distracted

00:36:16.607 --> 00:36:21.847

<v Katie>by all of the beautiful things and are more focused on just the content itself. Yeah.

00:36:22.782 --> 00:36:25.802

<v Katie>And then, you know, and this one, actually, I am bad at, I talked about last

00:36:25.802 --> 00:36:27.682

<v Katie>episode, so this is just one I'm working on,

00:36:27.802 --> 00:36:33.102

<v Katie>but is making sure that you can think through how to shift and flow from one

00:36:33.102 --> 00:36:36.942

<v Katie>topic to the next or from one thought to the next, as well as,

00:36:37.042 --> 00:36:38.362

<v Katie>you know, shifting between your intro,

00:36:38.622 --> 00:36:40.622

<v Katie>your main content, and your outro.

00:36:40.942 --> 00:36:44.742

<v Katie>I'm getting better at this, but just get better at it. Join me in just focusing

00:36:44.742 --> 00:36:46.002

<v Katie>and getting better at it.

00:36:46.702 --> 00:36:48.322

<v Katie>And then the last one we're really good

00:36:48.322 --> 00:36:53.522

<v Doc>At was good because you're learning this and the way you pulled that in to close

00:36:53.522 --> 00:36:57.002

<v Doc>it out so you guys didn't go too long was pretty talented.

00:36:57.642 --> 00:37:02.162

<v Katie>Thank you thank you there you go so yeah work on it I'm working on it and then

00:37:02.162 --> 00:37:05.782

<v Katie>the last one is never neglect your audience or your community right which I

00:37:05.782 --> 00:37:12.402

<v Katie>actually think we're pretty good at and mostly because of our structure because we we take this show

00:37:13.442 --> 00:37:17.122

<v Katie>live right so and we bring you into the experience of creating this show.

00:37:17.242 --> 00:37:20.922

<v Katie>Technically, this episode doesn't release for another week, but we're here.

00:37:21.142 --> 00:37:22.842

<v Katie>We're live on YouTube. We're allowing feedback.

00:37:23.162 --> 00:37:27.242

<v Katie>Your feedback might affect the entire episode and how we do things.

00:37:27.522 --> 00:37:30.302

<v Katie>We're chatting with you. We're thrilled and delighted that you're here.

00:37:30.422 --> 00:37:34.142

<v Katie>So I think those are kind of the big pitfalls to avoid, but you'll notice that

00:37:34.142 --> 00:37:37.802

<v Katie>none of those were the big picture things.

00:37:38.002 --> 00:37:42.602

<v Katie>Those are like little details, right? So like, again, the big picture is just

00:37:42.602 --> 00:37:48.582

<v Katie>have some kind of intro, main content, some kind of outro, call to action,

00:37:48.702 --> 00:37:50.022

<v Katie>right? Like those are your pieces.

00:37:50.482 --> 00:37:53.502

<v Katie>Everything else under that are all things that you can get better at.

00:37:53.662 --> 00:37:57.402

<v Katie>You know, learn from your mistakes, grow, figure it out.

00:37:57.402 --> 00:38:00.982

<v Doc>And you can have one segment. Your one segment can be, okay,

00:38:01.122 --> 00:38:05.662

<v Doc>so for instance, for Creators Unstuck, Lou and I have technically one segment,

00:38:06.362 --> 00:38:08.182

<v Doc>which started out as pick of the week.

00:38:08.422 --> 00:38:12.162

<v Doc>But then three weeks in a row, Lou came up with,

00:38:12.902 --> 00:38:15.862

<v Doc>these rapid fire questions for me at the end

00:38:15.862 --> 00:38:19.522

<v Doc>just just to shake the cage and

00:38:19.522 --> 00:38:23.362

<v Doc>now it's a thing like if we didn't have rapid fire questions i think people

00:38:23.362 --> 00:38:26.462

<v Doc>would get pissed they're like hey hey well i thought you're gonna grill doc

00:38:26.462 --> 00:38:29.982

<v Doc>because i think they just watch i think people this is gonna sound corny but

00:38:29.982 --> 00:38:33.662

<v Doc>i think my people enjoy watching me have to pull an answer out of the sky really

00:38:33.662 --> 00:38:37.682

<v Doc>really quickly you know thinking but that's proof positive and i know what i'm talking about,

00:38:37.942 --> 00:38:41.722

<v Doc>or I just believe what I'm saying so much that I don't need.

00:38:41.982 --> 00:38:43.462

<v Doc>So people ask this all the questions.

00:38:43.862 --> 00:38:45.942

<v Katie>Is it true or not? We don't know, but doc says it quickly.

00:38:47.182 --> 00:38:51.742

<v Doc>Well, you can check, but I think this comes up in oftentimes in conferences, right?

00:38:52.782 --> 00:38:55.062

<v Doc>Something breaks and they say, Hey, can you do a panel? Absolutely.

00:38:55.682 --> 00:38:58.222

<v Doc>How can you just do a panel like that? Because I know what the hell I'm talking

00:38:58.222 --> 00:38:59.882

<v Doc>about. You got three other people want to come.

00:39:00.062 --> 00:39:03.222

<v Doc>I can do it by myself. Just tell me what you want to do. I have gone to conference

00:39:03.222 --> 00:39:08.062

<v Doc>facilitators and saved a missing speaker because it just, can you just go up

00:39:08.062 --> 00:39:09.922

<v Doc>there and do a random panel on X? Yes.

00:39:10.611 --> 00:39:14.811

<v Doc>No problem. Cause I can come in as the curious one. Cause I know nothing which

00:39:14.811 --> 00:39:16.071

<v Doc>happened at people of video.

00:39:16.431 --> 00:39:21.551

<v Doc>Uh, or I can come in as the expert and talk with other experts.

00:39:21.691 --> 00:39:27.411

<v Doc>It's either way. Like I can literally go do a panel about Ayurvedic medicine.

00:39:27.971 --> 00:39:31.191

<v Doc>And I know nothing about that. I can't even spell it. I know the word,

00:39:31.431 --> 00:39:36.251

<v Doc>but I could sit on a panel right now and just generate an entire hour show about

00:39:36.251 --> 00:39:39.631

<v Doc>Ayurvedic medicine because I'm a curious individual. I know how to ask questions.

00:39:39.631 --> 00:39:42.131

<v Doc>And there's a couple of good books about how to ask questions.

00:39:42.291 --> 00:39:44.511

<v Doc>Speaking of questions, I want to make sure we cover this for Natalie.

00:39:44.711 --> 00:39:47.751

<v Doc>I think this is so important and I'm sort of glad that she asked the question.

00:39:47.931 --> 00:39:51.911

<v Doc>And I also see that, uh, Murray asked the question and I love Murray because

00:39:51.911 --> 00:39:56.951

<v Doc>he's the only person in history to ever get a live unstucking at camp.

00:39:57.471 --> 00:40:01.551

<v Doc>So he still gets the badge because pod fest, Mary Lou couldn't come.

00:40:03.071 --> 00:40:06.751

<v Doc>And so I actually, no, I take it back. Maybe the four people that we helped

00:40:06.751 --> 00:40:10.671

<v Doc>in our session, Martha especially, because she made me cry.

00:40:11.271 --> 00:40:16.751

<v Doc>Martha was really cool. Anyway, Natalie said, will obtaining a podcast booker

00:40:16.751 --> 00:40:20.671

<v Doc>for guests help grow your podcast show quicker? I have so many questions.

00:40:21.131 --> 00:40:25.811

<v Doc>First of all, I'm going to give you an answer, which I will stand fast on. No.

00:40:26.511 --> 00:40:28.271

<v Doc>Why? Because no need it.

00:40:31.091 --> 00:40:34.411

<v Doc>Let's fix this. Let me say it from my perspective. And again,

00:40:34.871 --> 00:40:38.571

<v Doc>all strategies are autobiographical. So this is the way I see it.

00:40:38.671 --> 00:40:39.551

<v Doc>You can do whatever you want.

00:40:40.631 --> 00:40:44.391

<v Doc>I don't think growing the show quicker is a thing.

00:40:44.711 --> 00:40:48.551

<v Doc>Matter of fact, I think it will break you because what it can cause to happen

00:40:48.551 --> 00:40:52.891

<v Doc>is the curse of virality.

00:40:53.171 --> 00:40:59.211

<v Doc>Any one of us who has ever had any smell of a viral video is I had a video go

00:40:59.211 --> 00:41:04.391

<v Doc>to 750,000 views in a really short time. and it still gets a lot of use to this

00:41:04.391 --> 00:41:07.691

<v Doc>day, but there's no way I could replicate that fire in a bottle.

00:41:07.871 --> 00:41:12.771

<v Doc>That fire in a bottle happened because I made a tutorial that a famous celebrity

00:41:12.771 --> 00:41:18.051

<v Doc>watched because they were in a concert and their computer broke and they literally

00:41:18.051 --> 00:41:21.771

<v Doc>had an hour to fix their computer and they saw my tutorial,

00:41:22.251 --> 00:41:25.991

<v Doc>ran the Best Buy, fixed the computer and did their show.

00:41:26.271 --> 00:41:32.031

<v Doc>And he made a video raving about how this dork, his words, not mine,

00:41:32.471 --> 00:41:35.611

<v Doc>on YouTube helped him solve a problem.

00:41:35.771 --> 00:41:39.751

<v Doc>And the majority of the comments on that video is who came here because of Kodak Black.

00:41:40.652 --> 00:41:44.232

<v Doc>Like, which is funny to me, because like of all of the music I love,

00:41:44.772 --> 00:41:48.352

<v Doc>yo, Kodak probably wouldn't be on the top of the list. He's like two songs I like.

00:41:48.492 --> 00:41:52.112

<v Doc>He's somewhat of a one hit wonder to me. But I can never repeat that.

00:41:52.432 --> 00:41:56.032

<v Doc>And that caused a whole bunch of subscribers to my channel, which ruined my channel.

00:41:57.132 --> 00:42:01.872

<v Doc>Those people don't watch Mac News and nerd videos about how to create YouTube.

00:42:02.192 --> 00:42:08.072

<v Doc>They just came because he said, and now it ruins my entire channel.

00:42:08.072 --> 00:42:12.072

<v Doc>So growing fast is something that we all need to put away.

00:42:12.492 --> 00:42:15.872

<v Doc>And I don't know if you remember what it felt like to be 12 or 13.

00:42:15.972 --> 00:42:20.552

<v Doc>I think maybe girls, you get it before us, but we used to wake up every morning.

00:42:20.792 --> 00:42:22.852

<v Doc>So as hell, why growing pains?

00:42:24.352 --> 00:42:27.912

<v Doc>Right. You're, you're, you're young. Your boy is about to go to this.

00:42:28.052 --> 00:42:32.212

<v Doc>It painful and it's irritating and you can't sleep and you're cranky.

00:42:32.352 --> 00:42:34.992

<v Doc>And then you get smacked a lot if you talk back to your mom.

00:42:35.312 --> 00:42:38.812

<v Doc>So I don't think growing as fast is important. And the other thing is,

00:42:38.972 --> 00:42:43.112

<v Doc>I would not want to have to interview anybody on my show that I haven't already

00:42:43.112 --> 00:42:48.892

<v Doc>had a chance to sit down and talk with or have a brief meeting with or something of that nature.

00:42:49.112 --> 00:42:53.752

<v Doc>So having somebody else book somebody for my show, that's not helping me.

00:42:53.952 --> 00:42:58.652

<v Doc>Like I need to, I wouldn't even put, I wouldn't put somebody in front of you

00:42:58.652 --> 00:43:05.632

<v Doc>guys that I didn't think could help you guys because I've already felt that person.

00:43:06.792 --> 00:43:11.872

<v Katie>Yeah and guests are like the the thing that I would echo on that is that guests

00:43:12.612 --> 00:43:15.612

<v Katie>are going to be such

00:43:15.612 --> 00:43:19.992

<v Katie>an important part of the show that like I you you really want to start with

00:43:19.992 --> 00:43:26.872

<v Katie>like the people that are in your sphere who you really trust like so in whatever

00:43:26.872 --> 00:43:31.632

<v Katie>background your podcast is in right so like this this podcast is about podcasting

00:43:31.632 --> 00:43:35.232

<v Katie>and about video podcasting so So like when we think of guests,

00:43:35.352 --> 00:43:39.932

<v Katie>like I think of all of the people that I work with in the video podcasting space

00:43:39.932 --> 00:43:41.812

<v Katie>who I want to come onto the show.

00:43:41.952 --> 00:43:46.052

<v Katie>And when they have a great experience, they'll recommend someone else that says

00:43:46.052 --> 00:43:50.112

<v Katie>like, you know, hey, Katie and Doc, like, you know, have you actually met this other person?

00:43:50.332 --> 00:43:54.012

<v Katie>Like this person is amazing at like podcast intros. You should have them on

00:43:54.012 --> 00:43:55.212

<v Katie>an episode talking about that.

00:43:55.212 --> 00:44:01.372

<v Katie>And that recommendation and the connections and the networking that is going

00:44:01.372 --> 00:44:07.252

<v Katie>to grow from that is going to be hugely valuable. And that's the fun part. So I guess like off –

00:44:07.858 --> 00:44:10.638

<v Katie>Offboarding that to someone else and paying them to

00:44:10.638 --> 00:44:13.698

<v Katie>do it just feels like you're actually missing like

00:44:13.698 --> 00:44:16.398

<v Katie>the the important part which is the networking and the

00:44:16.398 --> 00:44:19.258

<v Katie>people skills and the and you have those people

00:44:19.258 --> 00:44:22.158

<v Katie>no matter what your background is like honestly like I again my

00:44:22.158 --> 00:44:25.018

<v Katie>other podcast is I review movies like I have

00:44:25.018 --> 00:44:27.918

<v Katie>no shortage of friends who are like my favorite

00:44:27.918 --> 00:44:30.898

<v Katie>movie from the 80s is this I desperately want to be on the show like

00:44:30.898 --> 00:44:34.178

<v Katie>the second we said that we would start taking guests no shortage

00:44:34.178 --> 00:44:37.018

<v Katie>of it so like whatever field you're in whether it's you know

00:44:37.018 --> 00:44:39.998

<v Katie>dog grooming you make awesome doc pop

00:44:39.998 --> 00:44:43.278

<v Katie>mic covers you make cool little wooden signs

00:44:43.278 --> 00:44:46.318

<v Katie>like there's someone else that's in your world that you've

00:44:46.318 --> 00:44:49.258

<v Katie>worked with on these kinds of projects that like you

00:44:49.258 --> 00:44:51.998

<v Katie>know that is even competitive to you

00:44:51.998 --> 00:44:54.678

<v Katie>maybe you want to have like one of your competitors on your show and talk about

00:44:54.678 --> 00:44:58.498

<v Katie>but yeah doc is absolutely right that like competition man those

00:44:58.498 --> 00:45:03.918

<v Katie>those connections are just so important and keeping that can that level of control

00:45:03.918 --> 00:45:08.518

<v Katie>i think is really huge i you can get maybe some like guidance from some like

00:45:08.518 --> 00:45:13.158

<v Katie>podcast booking tools that work with big people but i i would not i would not

00:45:13.158 --> 00:45:15.858

<v Katie>off board that to someone else like i think that should be

00:45:15.858 --> 00:45:18.758

<v Doc>The reason why the question is so timely this is super funny

00:45:18.758 --> 00:45:24.038

<v Doc>is i actually just because i'm a curious individual i was like katie let's sign

00:45:24.038 --> 00:45:28.058

<v Doc>up for this podcast booking tool and just take a look and see how it is and

00:45:28.058 --> 00:45:32.478

<v Doc>we we both thought it was a really cool idea and i won't mention the tool because

00:45:32.478 --> 00:45:36.738

<v Doc>i we like the people but that tool just drove me crazy because the people on.

00:45:36.738 --> 00:45:38.398

<v Katie>It just didn't make sense for us yeah it

00:45:38.398 --> 00:45:42.938

<v Doc>Just didn't make sense the way i don't know to me it's it felt like getting

00:45:42.938 --> 00:45:48.678

<v Doc>i've never been a girl in the bar i have worn a dress to a bar um i felt like i was getting hit.

00:45:48.678 --> 00:45:49.898

<v Katie>On like

00:45:49.898 --> 00:45:56.178

<v Doc>At the bar by the dude with the like seersucker suit and the crooked tie and the cigarette breath.

00:45:56.458 --> 00:46:00.518

<v Doc>Hey girl, let me be on your podcast. And I was like, no, go away.

00:46:00.698 --> 00:46:05.438

<v Doc>It just didn't feel good. So yeah, I think I think it's,

00:46:06.435 --> 00:46:09.915

<v Doc>I think there's this misnomer of the success comes from the numbers.

00:46:09.915 --> 00:46:14.555

<v Doc>And I'm going to tell you, to me, the success comes from getting a message on

00:46:14.555 --> 00:46:19.035

<v Doc>Instagram, like five or six days ago, when Murray says, you know what?

00:46:19.115 --> 00:46:21.035

<v Doc>I still remember everything you guys taught me.

00:46:21.195 --> 00:46:25.875

<v Doc>Thanks for doing that. I really appreciate it. That was worth the entire show, right?

00:46:26.075 --> 00:46:29.675

<v Doc>Like we're, we're 20 something episodes in getting, and

00:46:29.675 --> 00:46:33.295

<v Doc>that happened in October and Amesbury Massachusetts

00:46:33.295 --> 00:46:39.355

<v Doc>at a bar that no longer exists sadly and that comment meant more to me than

00:46:39.355 --> 00:46:43.695

<v Doc>anything else that we do it means more to me than the hater comment so that's

00:46:43.695 --> 00:46:47.495

<v Doc>important and speaking of Murray he had another question uh which is I think

00:46:47.495 --> 00:46:50.355

<v Doc>is a really really really good question duck rocked it's.

00:46:50.355 --> 00:46:50.675

<v Katie>A really good

00:46:50.675 --> 00:46:56.395

<v Doc>One um can you plan can a weekly podcast help a concert venue increase ticket

00:46:56.395 --> 00:47:02.275

<v Doc>sales I started working on concerts and I want to help I absolutely think so Yes.

00:47:02.515 --> 00:47:07.615

<v Doc>Oh, my God. First of all, I am a J card reader ever since a little kid.

00:47:07.795 --> 00:47:10.615

<v Doc>If you don't know what a J card is, you're young. Thank you.

00:47:10.795 --> 00:47:12.095

<v Doc>I think your knees are probably happy.

00:47:12.335 --> 00:47:17.715

<v Doc>But those of us that remember J cards or liner notes as it became in CD books,

00:47:18.215 --> 00:47:23.075

<v Doc>I used to read every single word on a liner note or a J card.

00:47:23.075 --> 00:47:27.815

<v Doc>And to be able to get, and actually, I guess because I come from radio,

00:47:28.215 --> 00:47:33.755

<v Doc>when we had a concert, the first thing we would do is, okay,

00:47:34.115 --> 00:47:36.015

<v Doc>the concert's on Saturday.

00:47:36.715 --> 00:47:39.915

<v Doc>Coolio lands on Thursday, and we would pick him up at the airport,

00:47:40.075 --> 00:47:46.035

<v Doc>bring him straight to our station, and have a conversation, and then, you know, try not to...

00:47:46.568 --> 00:47:49.228

<v Doc>Deposit the questions that everyone's going to

00:47:49.228 --> 00:47:52.568

<v Doc>ask oh i heard you used to be a fireman what was that like don't ask

00:47:52.568 --> 00:47:58.788

<v Doc>those questions ask cool stuff and you know we basically built relationships

00:47:58.788 --> 00:48:01.968

<v Doc>with tons and tons of celebrities because we would always bring them in for

00:48:01.968 --> 00:48:06.028

<v Doc>an interview prior to a concert and we would always always interview them with

00:48:06.028 --> 00:48:09.308

<v Doc>questions that they don't normally get asked at every other damn radio station

00:48:09.308 --> 00:48:12.468

<v Doc>in the country and so then we became friends with most

00:48:12.528 --> 00:48:15.348

<v Doc>these people and they just enjoy whenever they

00:48:15.348 --> 00:48:18.168

<v Doc>would come to perform so coming from radio and always doing those

00:48:18.168 --> 00:48:21.928

<v Doc>interviews first those interviews always sold tickets

00:48:21.928 --> 00:48:24.748

<v Doc>so being able to do stuff like that or just

00:48:24.748 --> 00:48:27.648

<v Doc>talk about behind the scenes or like everyone yells at the sound

00:48:27.648 --> 00:48:31.008

<v Doc>man let me introduce y'all to dave so y'all stop yelling at dave this

00:48:31.008 --> 00:48:34.788

<v Doc>is electronics and stuff happens so when you hear that they might

00:48:34.788 --> 00:48:37.748

<v Doc>have planned for this but it happens and they will

00:48:37.748 --> 00:48:40.888

<v Doc>talk about what that comes from and blah blah blah so you can get the inside scoop

00:48:40.888 --> 00:48:46.768

<v Doc>or guess how many lights we have to fly for this reo speed wagon show we're

00:48:46.768 --> 00:48:51.208

<v Doc>gonna bring in eggshell lighting dave harman real person real company and we're

00:48:51.208 --> 00:48:56.928

<v Doc>gonna talk to him about how many lights it takes to pull off you know this particular

00:48:56.928 --> 00:49:00.448

<v Doc>thing don't talk to the sound man he's deaf yeah.

00:49:00.448 --> 00:49:01.968

<v Katie>Don't talk to yeah but even that

00:49:01.968 --> 00:49:06.928

<v Katie>would be hilarious like yeah there's like there's so many cool ideas stuff

00:49:06.928 --> 00:49:09.608

<v Doc>Like yeah like is there really a

00:49:09.608 --> 00:49:12.548

<v Doc>trap door on stage no look bing bing bing there's no trap door

00:49:12.548 --> 00:49:15.508

<v Doc>on this stage regardless of what everybody tells you like i

00:49:15.508 --> 00:49:19.188

<v Doc>think there's there's a ghost in your concert hall in every concert hall in

00:49:19.188 --> 00:49:23.888

<v Doc>the planet that's something to talk about um you and mike did it about the the

00:49:23.888 --> 00:49:28.508

<v Doc>bijou at woodstock you know the old theater that's now the opera house and they

00:49:28.508 --> 00:49:34.768

<v Doc>actually filmed the movie there like that has us all intrigued so oh my god i love this idea Murray,

00:49:34.968 --> 00:49:37.628

<v Doc>I can't wait to see what you pull off with this. This will be super cool.

00:49:38.601 --> 00:49:41.901

<v Katie>Yeah, Maury, check out. I will send you a link afterwards, but check out.

00:49:42.081 --> 00:49:45.061

<v Katie>There's a famous theater.

00:49:45.341 --> 00:49:49.181

<v Katie>So this is a little bit different than a concert venue, but a theater in Canada

00:49:49.181 --> 00:49:50.321

<v Katie>called the Stratford Theater.

00:49:50.521 --> 00:49:53.461

<v Katie>They do like traditional, typically like Shakespeare productions,

00:49:53.701 --> 00:49:54.861

<v Katie>but also a ton of other productions.

00:49:54.861 --> 00:49:57.801

<v Katie>And they actually have a podcast and they

00:49:57.801 --> 00:50:00.821

<v Katie>will like go into they like they will

00:50:00.821 --> 00:50:03.741

<v Katie>go into all of the plays of their season and

00:50:03.741 --> 00:50:08.121

<v Katie>they will as doc said like interview you know cast directors they'll talk like

00:50:08.121 --> 00:50:11.341

<v Katie>it's all the stories that you want to hear right so if you're passionate about

00:50:11.341 --> 00:50:15.301

<v Katie>that production or concert in your case like you kind of you want to like you

00:50:15.301 --> 00:50:18.901

<v Katie>want to hear from the team you want to hear the behind the scenes stories like

00:50:18.901 --> 00:50:23.121

<v Katie>all the things that you that you won't typically get anywhere else.

00:50:23.361 --> 00:50:26.921

<v Katie>So like you are hilariously, this is a great follow up to the previous question, right?

00:50:26.981 --> 00:50:30.881

<v Katie>Because you already have the built in guests, like, you have all of the performers

00:50:30.881 --> 00:50:34.041

<v Katie>that are going to come through, you could literally add that into like the agreement,

00:50:34.041 --> 00:50:37.661

<v Katie>you have all of the employees that work at the at the concert venue.

00:50:37.761 --> 00:50:41.781

<v Katie>And then you also have like, random fans that you could interview and bring

00:50:41.781 --> 00:50:44.621

<v Katie>in who live locally or people that are in the city or town that you're in.

00:50:44.741 --> 00:50:48.561

<v Katie>So there's, there's lots of, lots of different options. But yeah,

00:50:48.681 --> 00:50:51.561

<v Katie>the Stratford podcast is a great one to listen to because that's,

00:50:51.641 --> 00:50:55.461

<v Katie>I think, similar in function and you might get some good ideas from the segments

00:50:55.461 --> 00:50:57.741

<v Katie>and the structure and how they go about it.

00:50:58.001 --> 00:51:01.901

<v Katie>So we can apply theater to music going forward if that's helpful.

00:51:02.161 --> 00:51:04.581

<v Doc>And Joel and Maggie like the Stratford, so.

00:51:04.901 --> 00:51:06.241

<v Katie>Yay! Oh, it's a great theater.

00:51:06.721 --> 00:51:09.761

<v Doc>There's a thing. I was like, is this a Canadian thing that I don't know about?

00:51:09.921 --> 00:51:10.801

<v Katie>It's a Canadian thing.

00:51:13.141 --> 00:51:19.481

<v Doc>I can't believe there was a brief initiative to name the Stratford. Oh, Joel. Oh, wow.

00:51:19.861 --> 00:51:23.421

<v Doc>I'm glad that initiative was super brief.

00:51:23.901 --> 00:51:27.141

<v Doc>Listen, guys, I just want to say...

00:51:28.014 --> 00:51:33.194

<v Doc>We come here and we talk these things out basically to help you think it through.

00:51:33.454 --> 00:51:39.374

<v Doc>And the reality of it is what most people need to do is just start creating shows.

00:51:39.774 --> 00:51:45.934

<v Doc>Right. When we started this, which is so crazy, nearly 100 episodes ago,

00:51:45.994 --> 00:51:54.714

<v Doc>was it was let's just get Katie more comfortable with podcasts and familiar with podcasting.

00:51:54.714 --> 00:52:02.114

<v Doc>Because we wanted to take a strong marketing initiative for Ecamm for podcasters

00:52:02.114 --> 00:52:05.214

<v Doc>because we knew it would help just because of the way the app works.

00:52:06.214 --> 00:52:09.694

<v Doc>And so it probably might've thought

00:52:09.694 --> 00:52:12.354

<v Doc>out we were going to do like maybe 10 episodes and see where it goes.

00:52:12.474 --> 00:52:16.454

<v Doc>As a matter of fact, I think I remember me, Katie and Caleb sitting in the,

00:52:16.454 --> 00:52:20.474

<v Doc>in the Slack or the Zoom one day going, yeah, we can do it as a 10 episode series.

00:52:20.774 --> 00:52:24.134

<v Doc>And then, you know, kind of like build some content

00:52:24.134 --> 00:52:27.614

<v Doc>off of it and this will be really really cool here we

00:52:27.614 --> 00:52:31.514

<v Doc>are episode 99 still going

00:52:31.514 --> 00:52:37.554

<v Doc>and the questions are still there and the industry grows and so the reality

00:52:37.554 --> 00:52:46.034

<v Doc>of it is you cannot get to the fridge to get another molson's without taking

00:52:46.034 --> 00:52:51.434

<v Doc>one step at a time i just did that for joel and maggie I love it.

00:52:51.594 --> 00:52:57.454

<v Doc>So you can't get another Molson hoser without one step.

00:52:57.894 --> 00:53:01.934

<v Doc>Where did that cut come from? The hoser, that's a really weird cut,

00:53:02.014 --> 00:53:06.794

<v Doc>but I always used it when I was a kid because of the movie. But I never really understood about it.

00:53:06.814 --> 00:53:08.694

<v Katie>I was going to say, it's in Strange Brew. I don't know what else it's in,

00:53:08.774 --> 00:53:15.254

<v Katie>but yeah. I think it was in that SCTV gag.

00:53:16.614 --> 00:53:19.694

<v Katie>All right, well, we're nearing the end, and I'm very aware of transitions,

00:53:19.694 --> 00:53:21.814

<v Katie>But Saeed asked a really fantastic question.

00:53:21.934 --> 00:53:27.414

<v Katie>So before we jump off and start our outro, our wrap, we should answer this question.

00:53:27.574 --> 00:53:30.534

<v Katie>Saeed asks, how differently do you think you'd need to structure the flow if

00:53:30.534 --> 00:53:34.534

<v Katie>you didn't have live comments, questions, puns in the chat, incredible people

00:53:34.534 --> 00:53:37.454

<v Katie>surrounding you, right? So it's a really, really good.

00:53:37.714 --> 00:53:39.774

<v Katie>It's like a really solid question.

00:53:41.054 --> 00:53:47.494

<v Katie>Yeah. I don't mean, honestly, I don't think I would actually want to do a podcast

00:53:47.494 --> 00:53:49.254

<v Katie>without a live studio audience.

00:53:49.694 --> 00:53:56.274

<v Katie>Um, I just don't think like it would work with who I am, what I'm like,

00:53:56.414 --> 00:54:01.354

<v Katie>how my, the, the, my mindset, my, like, I, my personality obviously wouldn't

00:54:01.354 --> 00:54:03.754

<v Katie>really make as much sense for Ecamm, I don't think.

00:54:04.274 --> 00:54:09.194

<v Katie>Um, I think it would need, I think if we didn't have, I'm interested to dock in your opinion too.

00:54:09.274 --> 00:54:16.354

<v Katie>I think if we didn't have live comments, I do think that we would need to probably

00:54:16.354 --> 00:54:20.394

<v Katie>like certainly structure it differently. we probably would need to have a little

00:54:20.394 --> 00:54:24.234

<v Katie>bit more of an outline or like pre-

00:54:25.161 --> 00:54:30.301

<v Katie>maybe even just a list of kind of like pre-questions that we could ask each

00:54:30.301 --> 00:54:34.001

<v Katie>other. So we made sure that we still hit all of the content that we needed.

00:54:34.481 --> 00:54:37.461

<v Katie>Because we have a live studio audience, I don't think we have to worry as much

00:54:37.461 --> 00:54:39.461

<v Katie>about that because we know what we want to talk about.

00:54:39.641 --> 00:54:42.941

<v Katie>And then we know once we start talking about it, people are going to ask follow-up

00:54:42.941 --> 00:54:46.501

<v Katie>questions. So that's just going to like organically dive us deeper into the content.

00:54:46.641 --> 00:54:50.121

<v Katie>And we know that obviously because we're answering your questions and we already

00:54:50.121 --> 00:54:53.741

<v Katie>set up what the topic is, we're going to hit our goal of giving you the information that you need.

00:54:53.741 --> 00:54:57.041

<v Katie>I think without you all, you know, contributing to the conversation,

00:54:57.181 --> 00:55:00.601

<v Katie>just generally making it a more enjoyable experience, I think we would have

00:55:00.601 --> 00:55:05.021

<v Katie>to just make sure that we thought about you in advance in that planning phase

00:55:05.021 --> 00:55:09.981

<v Katie>and just had some of those questions list out. How about you, Doc? What do you think?

00:55:10.801 --> 00:55:14.661

<v Doc>Tor answered it for me. Thanks for the live interaction. I came and changed

00:55:14.661 --> 00:55:16.821

<v Doc>Doc's life forever. This is true, Tor.

00:55:16.821 --> 00:55:17.101

<v Katie>Exactly.

00:55:17.521 --> 00:55:17.921

<v Doc>Exactly.

00:55:18.261 --> 00:55:19.061

<v Katie>You sure did.

00:55:20.121 --> 00:55:25.721

<v Doc>Saeed, this is super funny, but I think I agree in the sense that I know everyone

00:55:25.721 --> 00:55:27.541

<v Doc>has seen this at some point in their life.

00:55:27.961 --> 00:55:32.961

<v Doc>The gigantic fishbowl, and then they put in the big rocks, and then they put

00:55:32.961 --> 00:55:35.841

<v Doc>in the pebbles, and then they put in the sand, and it's like,

00:55:35.881 --> 00:55:37.981

<v Doc>oh, you can't put anything else, and then they put water.

00:55:38.661 --> 00:55:42.161

<v Doc>The advantage of doing it live is you came with your outline,

00:55:42.281 --> 00:55:44.161

<v Doc>your key point. Those are your big rocks.

00:55:44.561 --> 00:55:52.341

<v Doc>And anytime you're asked to expound upon any subject, you can normally add more

00:55:52.341 --> 00:55:54.161

<v Doc>to it than if you just type it.

00:55:54.941 --> 00:55:58.881

<v Doc>It's called a callback in the industry, people, going all the way back to Katie's

00:55:58.881 --> 00:56:00.661

<v Doc>answer to Natalie from the beginning.

00:56:01.021 --> 00:56:06.801

<v Doc>The reason why ChatGPT voice is better than a prompt is because as you talk

00:56:06.801 --> 00:56:10.201

<v Doc>it out, you will give it a fuller prompt.

00:56:10.341 --> 00:56:13.701

<v Doc>You will give it information you wouldn't have thought of when you tried to type it out.

00:56:13.701 --> 00:56:16.801

<v Doc>So that is like you

00:56:16.801 --> 00:56:19.721

<v Doc>got your boulders you got in your pebbles then you put in your sand

00:56:19.721 --> 00:56:22.641

<v Doc>and then when you go to add the the water to

00:56:22.641 --> 00:56:27.381

<v Doc>fill it all out that is what comes from the studio audience you guys are adding

00:56:27.381 --> 00:56:33.741

<v Doc>the sand and the water and then now the thing is actually full so yeah you you

00:56:33.741 --> 00:56:41.301

<v Doc>really allow to fill in those gaps it's the old joke about the thomas uh thompson's english muffins.

00:56:41.441 --> 00:56:44.341

<v Doc>It's all of the nooks and crannies that hold the melted butter.

00:56:44.881 --> 00:56:47.761

<v Doc>The best part, you family, you guys are the melted butter.

00:56:49.044 --> 00:56:52.384

<v Doc>And, and okay, I'm hungry. Stop. All right, quit.

00:56:52.664 --> 00:56:56.264

<v Katie>A, I'm like starving, but B, I love that Said followed it up by saying that

00:56:56.264 --> 00:56:58.204

<v Katie>all podcasts need is rocks.

00:56:59.044 --> 00:57:01.624

<v Katie>Like it's stock rocks, which I absolutely love.

00:57:02.064 --> 00:57:08.164

<v Doc>Yeah. So it's, it's good. And it's, it's funny because I really do agree with Tara.

00:57:08.464 --> 00:57:11.584

<v Doc>The, the interaction and I mean, Katie, you said it, the interaction from you

00:57:11.584 --> 00:57:13.064

<v Doc>guys is what makes this good.

00:57:13.524 --> 00:57:16.584

<v Doc>And yeah it also makes sure that i know

00:57:16.584 --> 00:57:19.424

<v Doc>even even if i started to get in my own head

00:57:19.424 --> 00:57:22.324

<v Doc>and started questioning are we giving any value are we giving

00:57:22.324 --> 00:57:25.124

<v Doc>any value i don't have to ever ask that question because you guys tell us every

00:57:25.124 --> 00:57:28.764

<v Doc>week yeah you know we get the comments uh

00:57:28.764 --> 00:57:32.824

<v Doc>and and to the point i just want to remind you if

00:57:32.824 --> 00:57:35.764

<v Doc>you i had a couple this week which just kind of made me

00:57:35.764 --> 00:57:39.104

<v Doc>laugh a little bit when you get the the dumb hater comments

00:57:39.104 --> 00:57:41.984

<v Doc>go look at your good ones and

00:57:41.984 --> 00:57:44.704

<v Doc>luckily for ecamm we get a lot of good

00:57:44.704 --> 00:57:48.104

<v Doc>ones that goes with the crazy ones so yeah

00:57:48.104 --> 00:57:53.864

<v Doc>like like for real like my my tinkerbell juice for the last month or so has

00:57:53.864 --> 00:57:58.244

<v Doc>been taisha because she keeps coming up with questions that allows me to you

00:57:58.244 --> 00:58:04.004

<v Doc>know answer them for her it has been kevin cox you know um it has been even

00:58:04.004 --> 00:58:07.024

<v Doc>mary lou so to go back again to Saeed's question.

00:58:07.284 --> 00:58:12.664

<v Doc>I think what I would do is I would say like Katie and I would make this podcast

00:58:12.664 --> 00:58:18.084

<v Doc>for say Jill, or we would make this podcast for somebody that we know and just talk to them.

00:58:18.584 --> 00:58:20.204

<v Katie>And in the process of pretending like

00:58:20.204 --> 00:58:24.624

<v Doc>We're talking to them, it would give off the same effect, but it just not,

00:58:24.824 --> 00:58:30.744

<v Doc>it wouldn't feel as good without Saeed and, and, and Joel's hate for Kendrick.

00:58:34.104 --> 00:58:36.164

<v Doc>Sorry, Joel I had to sneak it in real quick.

00:58:36.164 --> 00:58:39.024

<v Katie>I love it

00:58:39.024 --> 00:58:41.984

<v Katie>well you know what what's funny

00:58:41.984 --> 00:58:45.504

<v Katie>again just remains like hilarious to me is that even with

00:58:45.504 --> 00:58:48.384

<v Katie>an outline and like the help of chat

00:58:48.384 --> 00:58:51.384

<v Katie>GPT and everything else in just the

00:58:51.384 --> 00:58:54.544

<v Katie>structure of our show which is a very simple structure

00:58:54.544 --> 00:59:00.524

<v Katie>we are still able to hit all of our talking points without even really glancing

00:59:00.524 --> 00:59:05.284

<v Katie>at the outline very much and like and we're able to do it in a much more kind

00:59:05.284 --> 00:59:09.444

<v Katie>of fun and friendly conversational way because we've created a really simple

00:59:09.444 --> 00:59:12.704

<v Katie>doable structure and flow for this show so this show

00:59:12.704 --> 00:59:13.384

<v Doc>Title should be.

00:59:13.384 --> 00:59:14.064

<v Katie>It all goes

00:59:14.064 --> 00:59:14.864

<v Doc>In the outline.

00:59:14.864 --> 00:59:22.964

<v Katie>That is a new show idea trademark we're getting the trademark for that right

00:59:22.964 --> 00:59:23.904

<v Katie>afterwards it's awesome

00:59:25.944 --> 00:59:29.924

<v Doc>Oh my God. Flow Riders, you know what it is. Look, if you need to find us,

00:59:30.084 --> 00:59:31.984

<v Doc>you need to reach us, you need to talk to us.

00:59:32.124 --> 00:59:35.244

<v Doc>All you need to do is go to flow.ecam.com.

00:59:35.724 --> 00:59:40.164

<v Doc>You can leave us a voicemail. You can leave reviews. Reviews actually do help podcasts go a long way.

00:59:40.204 --> 00:59:43.584

<v Doc>So if you really like this, please take the time to send in the review to the

00:59:43.584 --> 00:59:45.144

<v Doc>old Apple Podcast do hickey thingy.

00:59:45.484 --> 00:59:48.444

<v Doc>And then, of course, posit your questions, leave us a voicemail, whatever you want.

00:59:48.624 --> 00:59:53.484

<v Doc>We're always down to come in and answer whatever you have. And we also got to

00:59:53.484 --> 00:59:58.064

<v Doc>give a massive shout out to Captivate. That's Captivate.fm.

00:59:58.184 --> 00:59:59.884

<v Doc>It is where we host our podcast.

01:00:00.164 --> 01:00:06.084

<v Doc>There's plenty of hosts out there, but the thing we love about Captivate is their growth mindset.

01:00:06.424 --> 01:00:09.984

<v Doc>They're really, really designed to help people like Natalie grow their podcast.

01:00:10.264 --> 01:00:14.344

<v Doc>And they have a built-in booking situation in Captivate, Natalie.

01:00:14.524 --> 01:00:18.624

<v Doc>So just use that and save yourself the money hiring Joel to book guests for

01:00:18.624 --> 01:00:20.784

<v Doc>you that will only talk about tacos.

01:00:21.524 --> 01:00:23.004

<v Doc>And so there's that.

01:00:23.964 --> 01:00:26.284

<v Doc>Captivate.fm and just tell them Ecamm sent you.

01:00:29.524 --> 01:00:33.104

<v Doc>Oh, that was too big. You know what? I've been listening to Joel,

01:00:33.264 --> 01:00:37.244

<v Doc>Katie. I'm on my Tacotarian diet. I had the most awesome tacos yesterday.

01:00:37.684 --> 01:00:40.904

<v Doc>And I'm listening to Joel. It's kind of working. Tacos are amazing.

01:00:40.984 --> 01:00:48.044

<v Katie>I love it. Tacos are pretty amazing. I had a breakfast taco in Texas over the

01:00:48.044 --> 01:00:52.364

<v Katie>weekend. And I forgot how much I love a breakfast taco. So I'm in a taco space myself.

01:00:53.904 --> 01:00:57.104

<v Doc>I love breakfast burritos. Literally one of my favorites.

01:00:57.144 --> 01:01:01.824

<v Katie>Yes. Breakfast burrito. It was, yeah. I don't know why I never think about it. Genius idea.

01:01:01.964 --> 01:01:06.744

<v Doc>Oh, Market Square Bakehouse in Amesbury, Massachusetts has really good breakfast burritos.

01:01:07.364 --> 01:01:10.664

<v Katie>They sure do. This episode is brought to you by Market Square Bakehouse,

01:01:10.864 --> 01:01:15.104

<v Katie>Tacos, Joel, all of the Ecamm fam, and the incredible team.

01:01:16.044 --> 01:01:21.544

<v Doc>Oh my God. This is so good. So good. Anyway, family, you know what it is? Float Riders out.

01:01:21.844 --> 01:01:22.064

<v Katie>Out.

01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:45.200

<v Music>