The Flow: Episode 98 - Crafting the Perfect Podcast Intro & Outro

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<v Music>

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<v Doc>Aloha Flowriders and welcome to this edition of The Flow. I am Doc Rock along

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<v Doc>with my awesome co-host.

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<v Katie>Hey everyone, I'm Katie.

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<v Doc>I knew it. I knew it. So, Cates, we're going to talk about stuff today.

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<v Doc>And I know you had a whole game plan. So, Cates, tell the folks what we're going

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<v Doc>to talk about today and why.

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<v Katie>I have a game plan and you just nailed it. So, if you are joining us for this

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<v Katie>episode now or listening later, we are talking about intros and outros.

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<v Katie>What do you need to know? What shouldn't you do? What are some of the pro tips to being successful?

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<v Katie>And how can we convince me to do it better? Because I'm not rocking at it at

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<v Katie>the moment. And I know there's some improvements I can make.

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<v Katie>So intros and outros today, which is a huge part of any kind of show,

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<v Katie>whether it's podcasting or live streaming, or both like we do.

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<v Doc>Oh, there you go. Okay, so I really like this episode.

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<v Doc>And one of the things I like about this is you mentioned in the pre-show that,

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<v Doc>you know, there's tons of things that you think that you can do to improve.

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<v Doc>And the reason why I like the idea of this is because this is the curse.

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<v Doc>A lot of people set themselves up for, I need to improve all these things.

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<v Doc>And your brain kind of wants to fix them all at once. Yeah, making it too big.

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<v Doc>Imagine changing the floor and painting the wall and scraping the popcorn off

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<v Doc>the ceiling all simultaneously.

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<v Doc>It just doesn't work. You have to do them one at a time.

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<v Doc>And yeah, there should be an order, but tons and tons of people do it every week out of order.

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<v Doc>It really doesn't matter. But you really can only change them one at a time.

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<v Doc>And I think a good thing to keep in the back of your mind is to do them one at a time.

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<v Doc>And let them breathe so where i

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<v Doc>see i myself have made mistakes is change

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<v Doc>like five things at once and then you don't know

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<v Doc>which one actually did anything yeah and then

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<v Doc>if if it happens to slide backwards because it's a possibility your audience

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<v Doc>may not agree with the change that you made you don't know which of the five

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<v Doc>things set worked or didn't work yeah was that grandma set the apple cart no

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<v Doc>she said something something about the apple cart something

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<v Katie>About the apple cart.

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<v Doc>Um flipped or turned or yeah whatever something about the apples falling out

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<v Doc>the cart i don't know i'm not i'm not an old lady so there's

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<v Katie>Apples everywhere you guys.

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<v Doc>Right now let the apples hit the floor let the apples hit the floor sorry sorry

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<v Doc>um so yeah that that is a very cool thing but just please please please remember

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<v Doc>folks when you decide you want to do something.

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<v Doc>And I like the way Katie's doing it. We're having a plan. We're going to talk

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<v Doc>about it with you guys first.

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<v Doc>And then we can come up with a plan of action, then we can initiate the action,

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<v Doc>and then we can kind of see, right?

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<v Doc>But just don't get yourself psyched out because it is so easy.

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<v Doc>And I still do this to this very day to see somebody's show and then go,

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<v Doc>man, that'd be really cool if I did X, Y, Z.

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<v Doc>And it's like, yeah, but really, is it? And I think this is a huge problem in

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<v Doc>the community because the community is always people trying to add stuff to their show.

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<v Doc>And I'm like, your regular show ain't ready for you to add anything else yet.

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<v Doc>Yeah i've seen your regular show

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<v Katie>Here's what here's so here's how

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<v Katie>i want to frame this episode and um i can explain a

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<v Katie>little bit about sort of where i'm at because i think many of

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<v Katie>you are probably in the same boat as me keeping in mind everything doc said and

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<v Katie>the fact that doc and i are both in a simplify and streamline zone this year

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<v Katie>so so keep that in mind everything doc said 100 we are on board for that um

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<v Katie>i in my keeping things streamlined and simplified mode i I actually took this

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<v Katie>whole concept and idea from ChatGPT,

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<v Katie>and then I gave back to ChatGPT some of the questions that I had about this

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<v Katie>and got some additional information,

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<v Katie>which is, so again, we've talked about episode topics.

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<v Katie>This is what I am doing because of what I have learned. So...

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<v Katie>The things I really want to share, which I think really simplified it for me,

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<v Katie>is that so as we're thinking about intros and outros for any kind of show,

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<v Katie>for an intro, all you are trying to do is set a first impression.

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<v Katie>So you don't overthink it.

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<v Katie>All you're trying to do is welcome people into your episode and you're setting an impression.

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<v Katie>So it can be really simple. It can shift and change.

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<v Katie>You're welcoming and setting an impression. And then the outro at the end,

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<v Katie>you're leaving an impact, right?

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<v Katie>You want to say something that's going to be memorable.

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<v Katie>It might include getting people to take some kind of action. It might not.

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<v Katie>You're really just leaving an impact, right? A lasting impact.

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<v Katie>A first impression, a lasting impact.

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<v Katie>So I want all of us as we dive into this to remember that whatever you're doing

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<v Katie>right now might not be wrong, might need to be tweaked, might not need to be tweaked.

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<v Katie>You could make a decision now that you might want to change down the road.

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<v Katie>Your audience could dictate what some of it is.

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<v Katie>So our intro didn't always start off this way.

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<v Katie>And now it's become this somewhat silly thing where Doc does the official intro

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<v Katie>and I chime in a silly way.

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<v Katie>And then we have our flow writers out at the very end of our episode, right?

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<v Katie>That's not a call to action. That's a rally cry.

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<v Katie>But that came from spending time with all of you in our recording space and time.

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<v Katie>So again, if you take only one thing from this episode, take that in every episode

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<v Katie>that you do, you want to give people a great first impression,

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<v Katie>leave them with a lasting impact.

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<v Katie>Everything else that you do is okay.

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<v Doc>It's okay.

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<v Katie>It can be changeable. It's okay.

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<v Doc>I do agree. Like one thing that would be probably very beneficial.

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<v Doc>We just haven't done it yet is like, you know, the old school saying,

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<v Doc>tell them what you're going to say.

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<v Doc>Um, then say what you're going to say, then tell them again. I forgot.

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<v Doc>Again, my brain does not remember any of this old school stuff right now,

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<v Doc>but you know, you know what it is.

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<v Doc>So an advantage on that particular case, I think most people,

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<v Doc>When they think about intro outro, they think about like, you know,

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<v Doc>sort of the countdown and you know, my thoughts on that is we scrub them completely.

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<v Doc>I hate them, but in the podcast sense, it makes sense.

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<v Doc>Cause you're going to hear that when you hear the finished episode so

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<v Doc>in a way it's not that big a deal um we probably

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<v Doc>could shorten this one to 30-ish seconds

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<v Doc>maybe um if louise can find that

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<v Doc>cut if not i can make it um just because

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<v Doc>the whole concept the old school concept of we

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<v Doc>got to let people a chance to catch up yeah that's gone out

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<v Doc>the window and i still hear many creators say even creators

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<v Doc>of large large s is that the right word um

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<v Doc>they say oh well i'm doing it so that i

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<v Doc>can give people a chance to come in no you're not you're doing

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<v Doc>it for your ego like they're the people who want to

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<v Doc>be there will be there ahead of time flow riders are normally

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<v Doc>here ahead of time they're normally waiting for us so

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<v Doc>that part is out the window and it's still

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<v Doc>because that story was told so long and that

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<v Doc>story so well aligned with ego

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<v Doc>it's hard to tell people now that yeah

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<v Doc>the internet don't work like that no more homie the internet is quick

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<v Doc>like you really don't have to do that um yeah

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<v Doc>and and and zoom and youtube and all these other places have spent billions

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<v Doc>of dollars to make it so that when you fire it up it just goes and you're recording

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<v Doc>a podcast so it's going to be fine in the finished product anyway so yeah it's kind of unless

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<v Katie>I guess my so i've been thinking about this a lot because certainly like we

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<v Katie>as Ecamm do a ton of live streams and we have traditionally over the last however

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<v Katie>many years done countdown timers. We sell a countdown timer for this show.

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<v Katie>It's interesting with podcasts though because I do think that some of it,

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<v Katie>Like some of the, so the, and this is a kind of before what I would call an intro.

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<v Katie>So like an intro would be like what Doc just did, where it was like welcoming

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<v Katie>people to the show, saying like what the episode is about, kind of setting the tone for the show.

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<v Katie>But the kind of like before that I

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<v Katie>think like if if there

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<v Katie>is something that you can do at the beginning of

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<v Katie>the show that adds something then it might be worth adding in so I'll give you

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<v Katie>an example doc actually was huge huge in this for my personal show right so

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<v Katie>so I had this like epidemic sound music similar to what we have for the flow

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<v Katie>and that really wasn't doing a whole lot like it wasn't mine.

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<v Katie>It wasn't really all that special. It didn't really do anything.

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<v Katie>It was just a countdown timer. We were waiting for people to come on.

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<v Katie>And so there was nothing really like exciting or personal or community driven

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<v Katie>about that experience, right?

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<v Katie>It was just literally like waiting for the algorithms, which doesn't even matter anymore.

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<v Katie>But Doc being Doc, who is awesome, created an entire AI theme song for our show, right?

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<v Katie>That is like incredibly personal, Like, right. It's like, it's silly.

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<v Katie>It's fun. It's in kind of the like nineties boy band tone.

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<v Katie>It talks about me. It talks about my co-host.

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<v Doc>The Mosfets.

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<v Katie>The Mosfets, right. So it's, so it's, it's really personal. It's fun.

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<v Katie>And so, and it's beneficial for both are the like live audience who are reading

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<v Katie>like a fun fact that's scrolling by on screen.

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<v Katie>So like there is an interactivity to it while the theme song is playing,

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<v Katie>but the theme song is still really relevant to people who are just listening

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<v Katie>to the episode later. So in that kind of case, like,

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<v Katie>I might remove the countdown timer functionality. Maybe no one actually cares

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<v Katie>about that because they're just reading the fun fact and they're jumping on.

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<v Katie>And they know our theme song at this point. But I would say if there's a point

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<v Katie>to the music or if it's part of your brand or if you have done it with some

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<v Katie>kind of intention, then it's probably fine to keep that in.

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<v Katie>You just might want to think about what the actual experience is like. so

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<v Katie>like maybe at the beginning of the flow i've been

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<v Katie>wondering and thinking about like maybe as doc

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<v Katie>said we shortened down our our our like theme song

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<v Katie>that now is memorable to us and people know but maybe we put like some quite

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<v Katie>like some kind of thought-provoking questions to get our live audience excited

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<v Katie>which wouldn't take away from people who are listening but would be beneficial

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<v Katie>to our community so like there's things we could do in that kind of like moments

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<v Katie>before we jump on that helped to kind of,

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<v Katie>again, create a great first impression, right?

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<v Katie>It's an intro segment. So there's some options.

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<v Doc>First of all, Dana just said this in the chat. How are you, Dana?

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<v Doc>Hey, Dana. All the Canadians are coming through.

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<v Doc>What's really cool is like, all right, I'll pick on Dana because Dana was a hockey player, right?

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<v Doc>There's the sweeping lights and then the intro and the team comes on and that's

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<v Doc>just a rally cry. It gets everybody fired up as you skate out to the center and hit the...

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<v Doc>The one thing I can't do in skates is stop. I just crash into people,

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<v Doc>but I can skate really fast.

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<v Doc>So that's cool because that's the hype. That gets you ready to go when your

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<v Doc>goalie's over there like tack, tack, tack, and they're hitting all of the pads

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<v Doc>and hit the muscle pose and everybody screams, especially Oli the goalie was

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<v Doc>the best at firing up the crowd.

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<v Doc>So bringing that kind of fun hype element to your show is dope if that matches your show.

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<v Doc>And so I agree with a question of the day type of thing. That's something that

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<v Doc>we do on Creators Unstuck is we start out, tell them what we're going to say,

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<v Doc>and we hit them with the question of the day so that they can start to chime in in the chat.

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<v Doc>Another thing that would be cool for us for the flow would be to do some kind

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<v Doc>of like tip right out the gate because that brings value to the audience who's

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<v Doc>listening, but it also brings value to anyone who's watching on the replay.

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<v Doc>And so the thing that people need to remember is we leave our live recording

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<v Doc>up so that that replay is available.

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<v Doc>We do would love everybody to just wait and listen to the recorded episodes.

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<v Doc>But sometimes people know we record the day. They come late.

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<v Doc>They just want to back up and hear what they need because they need it right now.

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<v Doc>And so the advantage of slimlining the just countdown, which has zero value

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<v Doc>whatsoever at the end of the day, it has absolutely zero value to the retail, to the replay viewer.

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<v Doc>So that's the challenge of leaving the countdown.

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<v Doc>Down but i love the concept of let's coming in with some

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<v Doc>fire thing even if it's a recap of last week and like yo these were the poignant

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<v Doc>uh steps we got from last week i like highlighting a viewer a listener i like

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<v Doc>highlighting brian or or dana or you know uh steven and saying hey you know good to see you here um

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<v Doc>People, if you haven't heard already, check out Billy.

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<v Doc>Billy just released a new episode on, you know, his Billy the Dealmaker podcast.

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<v Doc>And it was really about the new thoughts on live selling for 2025.

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<v Doc>I want to highlight that before we start because it's something that's really cool.

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<v Doc>So now people are like, okay, I want to show up more because they're going to give me the shout out.

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<v Doc>But also that person will then in turn send people to your episode.

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<v Doc>So being a good community forward person. Yeah, lots you can do.

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<v Doc>Lots of ideas. So we're leaving it up to you guys. If you have something you

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<v Doc>want to see us do first, drop that in the chat.

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<v Doc>I mean, that's what we're here to do. We're here to build this show for you.

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<v Doc>It's not really about us. We get paid to be here left or right.

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<v Katie>I mean, hilariously, the other thing we could do, and certainly any of you could

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<v Katie>do as well, if it makes sense for your brand or what you want to do,

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<v Katie>is this show is really a lot about the process of podcasting.

00:14:17.731 --> 00:14:23.631

<v Katie>So we could also just, you know, put our, like, we all jump on early and do like our tech check.

00:14:23.791 --> 00:14:26.771

<v Katie>Like we could just tech check until we're ready to go and then go like,

00:14:26.871 --> 00:14:29.911

<v Katie>and then already be live and, and go and start our recording process.

00:14:30.631 --> 00:14:34.531

<v Katie>Yeah, I know. We'd have to talk Luis into swearing less, but just kidding.

00:14:35.391 --> 00:14:39.411

<v Doc>Cause that's what, that's what Lou and I do. We do the pre-show live and then

00:14:39.411 --> 00:14:42.191

<v Doc>we do the show and then we do a tiny little bit of after show.

00:14:43.051 --> 00:14:49.891

<v Doc>So it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's actually kind of cool. I like the idea of keeping

00:14:49.891 --> 00:14:55.511

<v Doc>it so raw because I think there's so many people that are still afraid of the process.

00:14:55.891 --> 00:14:58.671

<v Doc>And I'm like, the process is fun, bro. You just got to go in,

00:14:58.971 --> 00:15:00.711

<v Doc>you know? Yeah. Like, don't over thunk it.

00:15:01.688 --> 00:15:05.088

<v Katie>Yeah, it definitely is easier.

00:15:05.188 --> 00:15:09.948

<v Katie>And the cool thing about it, which we say, I think, often on this show is that it's all editable.

00:15:10.228 --> 00:15:12.708

<v Katie>And by that, I mean, like, you can decide something.

00:15:13.008 --> 00:15:15.248

<v Katie>And then in a couple weeks, you can be like, I didn't really care for that.

00:15:15.368 --> 00:15:17.168

<v Katie>I'm going to make a change to that. That's fine.

00:15:18.348 --> 00:15:22.008

<v Katie>It's your show. You're not going to break anything by, you know,

00:15:22.148 --> 00:15:25.528

<v Katie>by changing it up and seeing whether or not people like it or don't like it.

00:15:25.528 --> 00:15:30.888

<v Katie>But I do want to say, I guess, some like ground rules as we're thinking about

00:15:30.888 --> 00:15:32.948

<v Katie>like putting together intros.

00:15:33.228 --> 00:15:37.748

<v Katie>As Doc said, like you want it to be short. So you don't want to be going on

00:15:37.748 --> 00:15:39.688

<v Katie>and on regardless of what your intro is. Right.

00:15:39.928 --> 00:15:44.008

<v Katie>And that includes if you do like a kind of pre-intro, like if you do a theme

00:15:44.008 --> 00:15:48.928

<v Katie>song or music or a question of the day or whatever else that needs to be like quick, snappy.

00:15:49.108 --> 00:15:53.428

<v Katie>And then your intro itself needs to be quick, snappy, like no more than 30 seconds.

00:15:53.628 --> 00:15:56.348

<v Katie>Again, Doc's was perfect today. It's like, hey, I'm Doc Rock.

00:15:56.548 --> 00:15:58.148

<v Katie>This is the flow. Let's do it.

00:15:59.188 --> 00:16:02.488

<v Katie>You're getting into it because people who are with you every single time,

00:16:02.628 --> 00:16:05.308

<v Katie>they know what the show is. They're there.

00:16:05.548 --> 00:16:11.788

<v Katie>They're ready to listen to you. But it also builds consistency, brand recognition.

00:16:12.148 --> 00:16:15.088

<v Katie>And if new people are jumping on, it just immediately sets the tone.

00:16:15.188 --> 00:16:20.928

<v Katie>It's your first impression. So you want to be consistent with it and build it.

00:16:21.508 --> 00:16:24.628

<v Katie>And again, like, you know, some general best practices, right?

00:16:24.768 --> 00:16:28.628

<v Katie>Like it ideally in your intro, like includes the name of the podcast,

00:16:28.628 --> 00:16:32.968

<v Katie>what the episode or what the show is about, a quick tease.

00:16:33.148 --> 00:16:37.088

<v Katie>Like there are standards and things that you can do. You could certainly play with that.

00:16:37.268 --> 00:16:40.388

<v Katie>Like maybe it doesn't make sense to say the name of your podcast every single episode.

00:16:40.528 --> 00:16:44.808

<v Katie>That's fine. But there, you know, there are simple things that you can do that

00:16:44.808 --> 00:16:47.488

<v Katie>you can get then into the habit of doing every single week, right?

00:16:47.568 --> 00:16:50.168

<v Katie>You know, when you turn on the show, this is what you're going to say.

00:16:50.268 --> 00:16:51.628

<v Katie>And that's how you're going to get going.

00:16:51.868 --> 00:16:55.928

<v Katie>So I find intros to be a little bit easier than outros just because it feels

00:16:55.928 --> 00:16:59.388

<v Katie>like it makes more sense. I really struggle with outros.

00:17:01.202 --> 00:17:04.162

<v Doc>So Dana has a very, very good point.

00:17:04.562 --> 00:17:08.442

<v Doc>Dana said, I think people engage more when there's an expected structure,

00:17:08.442 --> 00:17:12.142

<v Doc>but then they also get the experience of something like sort of spontaneous,

00:17:12.142 --> 00:17:13.402

<v Doc>unexpected variations.

00:17:13.722 --> 00:17:19.622

<v Doc>And I really do like that concept. I will say the one advantage of sort of introducing

00:17:19.622 --> 00:17:23.342

<v Doc>your show, even though it's the same over and over again.

00:17:23.462 --> 00:17:26.662

<v Doc>And I find myself doing this on the shows that I listen to all the time.

00:17:26.662 --> 00:17:29.742

<v Doc>I do the intro with them like i legit say

00:17:29.742 --> 00:17:33.282

<v Doc>it out loud because i know exactly what they're going to say but

00:17:33.282 --> 00:17:36.102

<v Doc>i think one of the advantages of that is

00:17:36.102 --> 00:17:39.382

<v Doc>that also sort of segments in a little

00:17:39.382 --> 00:17:42.762

<v Doc>bit of that community feel but you are introducing yourself

00:17:42.762 --> 00:17:45.862

<v Doc>to somebody who may be brand new yep and it's

00:17:45.862 --> 00:17:48.842

<v Doc>almost like a welcoming gesture to the new person that

00:17:48.842 --> 00:17:51.762

<v Doc>just just coming in so they know exactly you know

00:17:51.762 --> 00:17:54.942

<v Doc>what's going to go and then i've even seen

00:17:54.942 --> 00:17:57.722

<v Doc>some podcasters be like okay new people we have a

00:17:57.722 --> 00:18:00.742

<v Doc>couple inside jokes around here uh you know well

00:18:00.742 --> 00:18:03.602

<v Doc>some of them will explain some of them we won't but you'll figure it out

00:18:03.602 --> 00:18:07.222

<v Doc>and just welcome to you know sort of the party um i

00:18:07.222 --> 00:18:10.222

<v Doc>know that my guys on true crime obsessed they definitely have

00:18:10.222 --> 00:18:13.602

<v Doc>their little weird inside jokes like they they

00:18:13.602 --> 00:18:16.482

<v Doc>have a bell that they ring for really crappy

00:18:16.482 --> 00:18:19.382

<v Doc>people it's the garbage bit the

00:18:19.382 --> 00:18:22.102

<v Doc>garbage person bell and then it took it took about

00:18:22.102 --> 00:18:25.282

<v Doc>three episodes to figure that bell out but once i did i felt

00:18:25.282 --> 00:18:28.382

<v Doc>like i discovered something and now i'm in so they

00:18:28.382 --> 00:18:32.442

<v Doc>never really explained it per se they just kept it going you totally figure

00:18:32.442 --> 00:18:36.062

<v Doc>it out it's like oh helen's gonna get a bell because oh my god i can't believe

00:18:36.062 --> 00:18:40.222

<v Doc>helen she she let she left the dad with those kids you know and you figure it

00:18:40.222 --> 00:18:43.182

<v Doc>out right away and now you're part of the team so i think there's some really

00:18:43.182 --> 00:18:47.662

<v Doc>cool nuanced ways to add a little bit of that community to it you know what i mean

00:18:48.419 --> 00:18:52.739

<v Katie>Yeah. And I think like everything you just said, you know, it goes down to being

00:18:52.739 --> 00:18:57.559

<v Katie>like consistent and thinking about what brand you are building.

00:18:57.719 --> 00:19:00.059

<v Katie>Whether or not you're being intentional about building a brand,

00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:02.439

<v Katie>you are still building a brand with your show, right?

00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:06.019

<v Katie>So there are going to be people that show up, you know, as Doc said,

00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:08.699

<v Katie>week after week and you need to pay attention to them.

00:19:08.879 --> 00:19:12.919

<v Katie>So I'm a big fan, as we've talked about a ton of times, the show Morbid,

00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.459

<v Katie>which again is a true crime show.

00:19:14.699 --> 00:19:16.639

<v Katie>Shout out to my Massachusetts girlies.

00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:22.439

<v Katie>But they are a wildly popular show. They've been around for years.

00:19:22.739 --> 00:19:27.479

<v Katie>And they, at one point, changed their theme song just for Halloween,

00:19:27.719 --> 00:19:31.639

<v Katie>like just to be like fun for Halloween. And their audience was like.

00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.059

<v Doc>What the hell?

00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:37.419

<v Katie>Like, where is your theme? So, and, you know, it ended up being like a funny thing.

00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:39.739

<v Katie>And they, you know, they immediately noticed and they were like,

00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:41.919

<v Katie>no, no, no, like we're just changing it for Halloween in it.

00:19:42.259 --> 00:19:43.359

<v Katie>And they put it back, right?

00:19:43.979 --> 00:19:49.499

<v Katie>So you can definitely test and play, as I said earlier, but you need to also

00:19:49.499 --> 00:19:53.819

<v Katie>be aware that you are building on what you've done before.

00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:59.139

<v Katie>And again, as we say all the time, really pay attention to what your community

00:19:59.139 --> 00:20:02.599

<v Katie>and what your people are saying, because there are parts that they may love,

00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:08.819

<v Katie>like the bell, or maybe it's your intro music maybe it's you know how ridiculous

00:20:08.819 --> 00:20:13.339

<v Katie>i am when i say hi everyone i'm katie like if you make some of those changes

00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:19.259

<v Katie>right like people might care and they might you know that might be if you it would break.

00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:24.279

<v Doc>Me because i'm expecting it so it's it's such a normal thing now for you know

00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:28.319

<v Doc>here it is like we're pushing 100 episodes like that would actually break me

00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:33.039

<v Doc>if you didn't say it i'd be like she good i'm like did she say something backstage what happened

00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.319

<v Katie>What happened Is she angry at me?

00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:39.099

<v Doc>Yeah, that's super funny. I really like that.

00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:42.859

<v Doc>You know, and we were talking about structure earlier this week.

00:20:42.859 --> 00:20:47.519

<v Doc>We were on a Zoom call with Brandon, Brandon Washington. Yeah. And then-

00:20:47.933 --> 00:20:50.733

<v Doc>like again for their show even if

00:20:50.733 --> 00:20:54.313

<v Doc>i show up late i can listen for about five minutes

00:20:54.313 --> 00:20:56.933

<v Doc>or so i know where we are in the show you know what i

00:20:56.933 --> 00:20:59.773

<v Doc>mean like there's an there's sort of a a very

00:20:59.773 --> 00:21:04.713

<v Doc>much expectation this sounds crazy to say it but it's similar to law and order

00:21:04.713 --> 00:21:12.473

<v Doc>like i i can tell like within the first 10 minutes like how exactly how it's

00:21:12.473 --> 00:21:15.673

<v Doc>going to flow right i'm like this person is going to be thought and then this

00:21:15.673 --> 00:21:17.053

<v Doc>person is going to get pushed.

00:21:17.153 --> 00:21:19.313

<v Doc>I'll tell you, you're kind of going to believe it's them, but it's not really them.

00:21:19.433 --> 00:21:21.953

<v Doc>And this is going to be the hang up. Like you kind of know the formula now.

00:21:22.573 --> 00:21:29.293

<v Doc>So I don't think it should be that formula, but it is, it is definitely something that is there.

00:21:29.473 --> 00:21:32.613

<v Doc>Okay. So if you're thinking about a segment, right?

00:21:32.853 --> 00:21:36.673

<v Doc>Uh, you know, we're talking about intros. Let's go. I think there's important

00:21:36.673 --> 00:21:38.953

<v Doc>to do a reset in the middle at times.

00:21:39.373 --> 00:21:46.933

<v Doc>And this is very key. If you are the person who thinks you want to have sponsors,

00:21:47.033 --> 00:21:53.533

<v Doc>I think it's important out the gate that you sponsor your show,

00:21:53.693 --> 00:21:57.153

<v Doc>even if your show is sponsored by you.

00:21:57.373 --> 00:21:57.993

<v Katie>Yep.

00:21:58.553 --> 00:22:04.293

<v Doc>Okay. I think you need to put an ad read in the middle. So here's something

00:22:04.293 --> 00:22:06.413

<v Doc>Rich mentioned last week. This is very cool.

00:22:06.913 --> 00:22:14.593

<v Doc>So Rich can go in the middle of his show and say, in order to do this podcast, we use Ecamm.

00:22:14.753 --> 00:22:18.933

<v Doc>Ecamm is a really effective tool that allows you to look good in Zoom,

00:22:19.513 --> 00:22:23.433

<v Doc>create, you know, specialized recordings for your brands, for your product,

00:22:23.553 --> 00:22:25.033

<v Doc>for your schoolwork, for your business.

00:22:25.053 --> 00:22:29.053

<v Doc>You can also use it to do live stream. It's a full video production suite on the desk.

00:22:29.233 --> 00:22:35.173

<v Doc>If you want to check us out, go to, you know, ecamm.com slash And he goes,

00:22:35.333 --> 00:22:36.333

<v Doc>all right, now back to the show.

00:22:36.453 --> 00:22:40.973

<v Doc>Now, that is an affiliate situation, but he builds in the ad read.

00:22:41.293 --> 00:22:45.573

<v Doc>Jared Spink did this extremely well, and there's a great example on YouTube.

00:22:45.573 --> 00:22:48.553

<v Doc>If you want to see how he did it, I can send you that link. And he's like,

00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:52.710

<v Doc>Hey, Rich just showed up in the chat. I didn't even know he was here.

00:22:52.930 --> 00:22:55.190

<v Doc>I didn't even know he was here. Sorry, Rich.

00:22:55.830 --> 00:23:00.310

<v Doc>But so that was a brilliant, brilliant statement, though, last week for Rich.

00:23:00.430 --> 00:23:06.210

<v Doc>Like, even if you're not sponsored yet, by putting in the behavior of having

00:23:06.210 --> 00:23:10.210

<v Doc>an ad read, even if it's an ad read for yourself, like in Creators Unstuck,

00:23:10.350 --> 00:23:12.310

<v Doc>we do an ad read for Doc Pops, right?

00:23:12.950 --> 00:23:17.690

<v Doc>We also do an ad read for Marshall's pod pack because we want to give back to

00:23:17.690 --> 00:23:20.510

<v Doc>Marshall because Marshall made this lovely thing for us. Right.

00:23:20.950 --> 00:23:26.910

<v Doc>So by doing that, somebody else is going to hear that. And then, you know, sure.

00:23:27.390 --> 00:23:31.410

<v Doc>Or Adobe podcast or somebody be like, hey, man, I was listening to your show. It's really good.

00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:35.610

<v Doc>I noticed that you have sponsors right now. But are you guys looking for new ones?

00:23:35.730 --> 00:23:39.910

<v Doc>And you'd be like, yeah, don't say, oh, no, they don't pay for those.

00:23:40.010 --> 00:23:42.830

<v Doc>That'll be real dumb. Okay. At that point, don't say that.

00:23:43.070 --> 00:23:47.830

<v Doc>But you can be like, yeah, we are. As a matter of fact, here's our media kit,

00:23:48.150 --> 00:23:49.990

<v Doc>you know, and let us know what you're thinking.

00:23:50.410 --> 00:23:55.150

<v Doc>So if you set the availability, you're more likely to get some reaction.

00:23:55.290 --> 00:23:57.970

<v Doc>There's no guarantee, but at least you're setting the intention.

00:23:58.470 --> 00:24:02.850

<v Doc>And the sooner you set the intention, the better. In my personal opinion.

00:24:04.810 --> 00:24:07.770

<v Katie>Absolutely segments are one of those things we should actually we should do an entire episode on

00:24:07.770 --> 00:24:10.910

<v Katie>segments because that's one of those things that um i think

00:24:10.910 --> 00:24:13.910

<v Katie>we could probably add more of that into this show

00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:19.090

<v Katie>and i think the structure of that is really cool um yeah i'd love to dive deeper

00:24:19.090 --> 00:24:26.730

<v Katie>on that one let's i want to dive into outros i so here's here's my here's my

00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:30.850

<v Katie>challenge that i have with outros and then let's talk it through because i i

00:24:30.850 --> 00:24:33.670

<v Katie>did research a bunch of like best practices on it that hopefully will help.

00:24:34.030 --> 00:24:39.170

<v Katie>I feel like, so intros again, I'm pretty good at because for the most part,

00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:40.550

<v Katie>it's welcoming to the show.

00:24:40.790 --> 00:24:45.970

<v Katie>I like, I I'm excited for the show. So I'm, I'm already in that headspace and I'm ready to get into it.

00:24:46.050 --> 00:24:50.310

<v Katie>But then you dive into the actual content of the show, you're there, et cetera.

00:24:50.590 --> 00:24:56.030

<v Katie>And I feel like I have a really hard time wrapping the show,

00:24:56.290 --> 00:25:04.970

<v Katie>and then once I ended the content, I'm not great at what is the best thing to say in an outro.

00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:07.790

<v Katie>I've learned from some of the best out there that.

00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:11.740

<v Katie>You shouldn't be giving, obviously, you know, 10 different...

00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.360

<v Katie>Your outro should not be... Thank you so much for watching the show.

00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:21.320

<v Katie>Please like, subscribe, follow, go back to my website, leave me a review and buy my t-shirts.

00:25:21.560 --> 00:25:25.020

<v Katie>We would really love to see... Like, it needs to be like one,

00:25:25.260 --> 00:25:28.800

<v Katie>you know, one call to action, one, you know, thing at the end.

00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.520

<v Katie>There's a number of different things. But I feel like I get frazzled in the,

00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:36.980

<v Katie>oh, shoot, we're actually like out of time and like either my guest or someone

00:25:36.980 --> 00:25:39.980

<v Katie>else actually needs to jump onto something else. So I'm trying to rap faster than I want to.

00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.120

<v Katie>And then I don't do a good kind of transition into what I need to say.

00:25:44.260 --> 00:25:47.740

<v Katie>And then I just sort of panic and we end up, you know, it's like, roll the credits.

00:25:48.300 --> 00:25:53.420

<v Katie>We're rapping. So I need to, I think, pick like what thing and figure out like when.

00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.860

<v Doc>Here's a good way out. Here's a really, really good way out, I think.

00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:01.580

<v Doc>Number one, you can't just do the Irish goodbye. Just leave.

00:26:01.800 --> 00:26:04.040

<v Doc>It's cool. I'm just kidding. I'm joking.

00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:04.680

<v Katie>And bye.

00:26:05.540 --> 00:26:11.980

<v Doc>Okay, gotta go. So I think that you can say, oh, my God, Kate,

00:26:12.100 --> 00:26:15.420

<v Doc>this was so good. And I want to be respectful of your time.

00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.820

<v Doc>We don't have much time left. But as you can tell, we didn't get finished this.

00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:24.360

<v Doc>I need to have you back. Can I at least get a, you know, a soft commitment that

00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:25.980

<v Doc>you'll come back so we can finish this up?

00:26:26.340 --> 00:26:29.060

<v Doc>And you're like, oh, yeah, sure. Let's try to get this on the counter.

00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:33.220

<v Doc>Now the audience is hooked, right? You're giving the audience a chance to know

00:26:33.220 --> 00:26:36.120

<v Doc>that this is going to keep going, especially when it's a really, really good episode.

00:26:36.740 --> 00:26:39.400

<v Doc>And they're like, sorry, we couldn't get to all your questions.

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:43.580

<v Doc>However, if you want to get them ready for the next time case is on,

00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:47.480

<v Doc>here's how you submit your questions. For us, it's flow.ecam.com.

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.540

<v Doc>Go to the website, submit some questions right there.

00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:54.700

<v Doc>Now, the fact that you've given them a piece of homework, you cannot say the

00:26:54.700 --> 00:26:56.300

<v Doc>next call to action. You've given it.

00:26:56.900 --> 00:27:01.540

<v Doc>And I swear, you're dead solid right. Lots and lots and lots and lots of people

00:27:01.540 --> 00:27:04.300

<v Doc>give a whole bunch of call to actions. Right.

00:27:05.092 --> 00:27:12.392

<v Doc>If you are recording on YouTube and you're putting it at the end of the show, it's okay.

00:27:12.692 --> 00:27:20.912

<v Doc>But never, ever, ever put a leave YouTube call to action in the beginning of your show.

00:27:21.632 --> 00:27:25.732

<v Doc>Never. That is the absolute dumbest thing you can do.

00:27:25.752 --> 00:27:29.852

<v Doc>And most people don't realize it because they have been told by all these marketing

00:27:29.852 --> 00:27:35.652

<v Doc>people that you should always tell people you know, good call to action for your audience.

00:27:35.932 --> 00:27:40.872

<v Doc>But the problem is you're telling people to leave the place of business.

00:27:41.372 --> 00:27:45.992

<v Doc>Like you walked into the restaurant as a cheesecake factory and told everybody

00:27:45.992 --> 00:27:49.152

<v Doc>to go to Casa Maria because the burritos are better, which they are,

00:27:49.232 --> 00:27:52.152

<v Doc>but you can't, if you stand in the middle of the cheesecake factory and tell

00:27:52.152 --> 00:27:54.732

<v Doc>everybody to go to Casa Maria, they will tackle you.

00:27:55.052 --> 00:27:57.812

<v Doc>And then they will, they will beat you senseless.

00:27:58.452 --> 00:28:02.752

<v Doc>So you're to YouTube, you're becoming a bad citizen. So I think at the end,

00:28:02.912 --> 00:28:05.632

<v Doc>it's very cool to give those CTAs where you might send them somewhere.

00:28:05.732 --> 00:28:08.552

<v Doc>But even then, I don't want them to leave YouTube.

00:28:09.512 --> 00:28:15.012

<v Doc>So what I say is keep this in the back of your head, but there's going to be

00:28:15.012 --> 00:28:16.772

<v Doc>an additional video you should check out.

00:28:16.952 --> 00:28:21.392

<v Doc>There's going to be some another link. Here's even if you send someone to Taurus

00:28:21.392 --> 00:28:25.352

<v Doc>podcast or to what's that thing called building blocks.

00:28:26.052 --> 00:28:29.952

<v Doc>You guys were talking about design today. If you're brand new to designing for

00:28:29.952 --> 00:28:32.972

<v Doc>Ecamm, go and check out Honor and Fulgens on Building Blocks.

00:28:33.112 --> 00:28:35.952

<v Doc>We'll put a link right in the chat right now. There's a video.

00:28:36.192 --> 00:28:39.852

<v Doc>If you're on this mission and you want to keep going, go and watch this right

00:28:39.852 --> 00:28:42.852

<v Doc>now because this will solidify what we talked about today.

00:28:43.012 --> 00:28:46.492

<v Doc>And it'll give you the foundations so that you can build from here.

00:28:47.292 --> 00:28:52.152

<v Doc>Because now you have turned in what was an hour of listening to your show to

00:28:52.152 --> 00:28:54.212

<v Doc>another hour of listening to Honor and Fulgens.

00:28:54.212 --> 00:28:57.692

<v Doc>And then once they get over there and fall in love with Honest Laugh like we

00:28:57.692 --> 00:29:00.792

<v Doc>all do, they're going to watch two, three-hour Honest and Full Genes.

00:29:00.892 --> 00:29:02.632

<v Doc>You are a good citizen of YouTube.

00:29:03.032 --> 00:29:07.192

<v Doc>YouTube goes, I'm going to promote that show because they get people stuck in

00:29:07.192 --> 00:29:11.492

<v Doc>a five-hour bench, which means YouTube gets to serve 85 ads,

00:29:13.232 --> 00:29:16.372

<v Doc>Even if it's premium, because those ads are still served. We just don't see

00:29:16.372 --> 00:29:17.772

<v Doc>them, but we get paid for that as well.

00:29:18.652 --> 00:29:22.572

<v Doc>So this is where people are always like, oh, boom, boom, boom.

00:29:22.572 --> 00:29:26.512

<v Doc>And so Tor said, I see a lot of people clothing until next time.

00:29:26.672 --> 00:29:30.792

<v Doc>Watch this video up here for the more content. That's why I end all of my videos

00:29:30.792 --> 00:29:33.152

<v Doc>with the algorithm is going to show you another video that I think you should

00:29:33.152 --> 00:29:34.132

<v Doc>watch. And I agree with them.

00:29:34.552 --> 00:29:39.192

<v Doc>Now, when you do your end of YouTube, another mistake that many people make

00:29:39.192 --> 00:29:41.892

<v Doc>is you put two videos on the end.

00:29:42.912 --> 00:29:47.472

<v Doc>If you live with Karen, you can't give her choices. You got to give her one.

00:29:48.092 --> 00:29:50.792

<v Doc>She goes to In-N-Out Burger and looks at the menu like,

00:29:53.236 --> 00:29:56.476

<v Doc>So you give people one choice and then it makes it so much easier.

00:29:57.176 --> 00:30:00.816

<v Doc>That's why, that's why I just watched this really dope report about blind boxes.

00:30:01.136 --> 00:30:03.236

<v Doc>It's why blind boxes are so popular.

00:30:03.656 --> 00:30:07.416

<v Doc>No one has to decide, you know, those weebles, whatever you call it behind your head.

00:30:07.976 --> 00:30:08.776

<v Katie>Woobles. Yeah.

00:30:08.796 --> 00:30:12.256

<v Doc>Yeah. Woobles. Why? Weebles was a thing when we were kids. They wobble,

00:30:12.296 --> 00:30:12.656

<v Doc>but they don't fall down.

00:30:12.656 --> 00:30:14.336

<v Katie>Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. Yeah.

00:30:15.556 --> 00:30:19.156

<v Doc>So imagine like if they just came in a box and you don't know what's in there,

00:30:19.236 --> 00:30:20.956

<v Doc>you just got to pull it and then make it.

00:30:21.436 --> 00:30:25.076

<v Doc>Yeah. They would actually sell 10 times more than giving people exactly what

00:30:25.076 --> 00:30:28.736

<v Doc>they want because people get into the sort of hunt, the chase, sort of the gambling.

00:30:29.416 --> 00:30:33.056

<v Doc>And so, yeah, giving them the one option is also hella brilliant,

00:30:33.236 --> 00:30:34.456

<v Doc>bro. Super hella brilliant.

00:30:34.736 --> 00:30:41.076

<v Katie>Do you know what I'm thinking about implementing? And I would love to actually

00:30:41.076 --> 00:30:44.976

<v Katie>have him come on the show. So I will tease you all by saying that we will talk

00:30:44.976 --> 00:30:45.776

<v Katie>him into coming on the show.

00:30:46.436 --> 00:30:50.656

<v Katie>But one of our friends, Lou Mangiello, has an absolutely incredible podcast.

00:30:50.656 --> 00:30:56.036

<v Katie>He's been doing it for as long as Doc, basically, and just got added into the

00:30:56.036 --> 00:30:59.396

<v Katie>Podcast Hall of Fame. So huge out to Lou.

00:30:59.856 --> 00:31:04.376

<v Katie>He has a podcast all about Walt Disney World. It's literally called WDW,

00:31:04.616 --> 00:31:05.616

<v Katie>Walt Disney World Radio.

00:31:06.616 --> 00:31:09.996

<v Katie>But what he does, and he's incredible at building community,

00:31:10.196 --> 00:31:13.516

<v Katie>is he actually ends his show by asking a question.

00:31:14.036 --> 00:31:19.216

<v Katie>And the way that his community answers the question is to go back to his website.

00:31:19.216 --> 00:31:24.596

<v Katie>So he asks a question verbally on his podcast, and then you can grab the link

00:31:24.596 --> 00:31:28.716

<v Katie>from the show notes. I think he has a QR code as well for when he's visually showing it.

00:31:28.796 --> 00:31:31.096

<v Katie>So he has ways to be able to do that.

00:31:31.216 --> 00:31:34.836

<v Katie>So his call to action is actually a little bit less...

00:31:35.988 --> 00:31:40.268

<v Katie>Obvious, like obviously his goal is to get people back to his website and interacting

00:31:40.268 --> 00:31:42.308

<v Katie>with his content, right? Because they're back to the website.

00:31:42.768 --> 00:31:45.828

<v Katie>That's, you know, improving his website numbers. He's able to,

00:31:45.868 --> 00:31:48.248

<v Katie>you know, track them. He can probably place ads against that.

00:31:48.408 --> 00:31:50.928

<v Katie>He's getting the community to engage. So he's getting their feedback.

00:31:51.188 --> 00:31:55.348

<v Katie>And then he can actually start episodes with, you know, last week on the episode,

00:31:55.608 --> 00:31:57.668

<v Katie>at the end of the episode, we asked you did blah, blah, blah.

00:31:58.368 --> 00:32:02.948

<v Katie>86% of you said yes. And, you know, whatever he can, he has some like fun thing

00:32:02.948 --> 00:32:07.948

<v Katie>that he can actually use for both his intro and his outro that is really community focused.

00:32:08.068 --> 00:32:12.188

<v Katie>That is really a fun way to do that. So there's, I've been thinking more about that,

00:32:12.488 --> 00:32:16.628

<v Katie>particularly for the VHS club, because it could be something as simple as we

00:32:16.628 --> 00:32:18.728

<v Katie>ask people at the end of every single episode, what they like,

00:32:18.828 --> 00:32:22.648

<v Katie>what their rating was for that movie, if they had seen it or how much we had

00:32:22.648 --> 00:32:24.668

<v Katie>convinced them to watch it if they had not.

00:32:24.828 --> 00:32:28.988

<v Katie>And we just take the results from the actual live chat, but we could very simply

00:32:28.988 --> 00:32:34.268

<v Katie>also just have that as a, as a question for each episode that's on Spotify has

00:32:34.268 --> 00:32:37.688

<v Katie>a poll, for example, the website. So there's a ton of options there.

00:32:37.928 --> 00:32:42.828

<v Doc>Have them go to the website and submit their like Cisco and Ebert style review

00:32:42.828 --> 00:32:46.208

<v Doc>or, um, and Antoine Merriweather style review.

00:32:46.348 --> 00:32:48.548

<v Doc>It's two snaps up in the Z formation.

00:32:50.208 --> 00:32:55.088

<v Doc>Yeah. All the means. Uh, and then that way you read out the Josh review,

00:32:55.288 --> 00:32:59.888

<v Doc>the next show, or you read out the Paul's review or Valerie's review or whatever.

00:32:59.888 --> 00:33:04.848

<v Doc>There also should be a thing in the front put the gamble in now before we talk

00:33:04.848 --> 00:33:10.168

<v Doc>about this show how many people think that Valerie's seen this and how many

00:33:10.168 --> 00:33:13.288

<v Doc>people don't what is this game right

00:33:13.808 --> 00:33:17.888

<v Doc>they'll find out that Valerie's only seen like 1% of the movies ever made

00:33:19.228 --> 00:33:23.968

<v Doc>it's kind of a fun game but you're building into sort of your community speaking

00:33:23.968 --> 00:33:27.168

<v Doc>of building into community I'm watching the chat right now and I'm kind of cracking up

00:33:27.850 --> 00:33:34.930

<v Doc>We have all come accustomed to Ana is little a and a, but autocorrect always

00:33:34.930 --> 00:33:38.090

<v Doc>capitalizes it. And it does it for me too. And it drives me insane.

00:33:38.550 --> 00:33:42.370

<v Doc>And it's because we want to put a in a lowercase.

00:33:42.770 --> 00:33:46.950

<v Doc>And like that has become a thing of the community. And even like yesterday,

00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:51.830

<v Doc>you know, George wins something and I'm like, okay, now it's a running joke

00:33:51.830 --> 00:33:53.430

<v Doc>that George is always going to win something.

00:33:53.590 --> 00:33:56.690

<v Doc>So I'm like, yo, I'm going to tell Katie, I got to bring George to NAB.

00:33:56.690 --> 00:34:01.290

<v Doc>So after the conference we can we can win some win all the things we're just

00:34:01.290 --> 00:34:05.170

<v Doc>gonna go to the casino and they're like you guys see ecam yeah they're at the

00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:06.750

<v Doc>tables george is racking it up

00:34:08.490 --> 00:34:11.610

<v Doc>So but those those things that you

00:34:11.610 --> 00:34:14.410

<v Doc>do in your show that build your community the

00:34:14.410 --> 00:34:17.210

<v Doc>community all has these internal jokes within

00:34:17.210 --> 00:34:19.950

<v Doc>each other um i love it when they have a

00:34:19.950 --> 00:34:22.750

<v Doc>name right like you got taters right

00:34:22.750 --> 00:34:25.750

<v Doc>we got flow riders when you when you build a

00:34:25.750 --> 00:34:28.770

<v Doc>a name for it as well you're just

00:34:28.770 --> 00:34:31.790

<v Doc>really tying them in so even adding a segment like

00:34:31.790 --> 00:34:37.190

<v Doc>that to your outro that gives props like miss nancy right miss nancy had the

00:34:37.190 --> 00:34:42.150

<v Doc>little circle thing and she'd be like i see taisha and torah and louise and

00:34:42.150 --> 00:34:46.150

<v Doc>anna and you know that i mean from all the way back then that was the outro

00:34:46.150 --> 00:34:50.950

<v Doc>to the show But like I used to sit there like a little kid, wondering if she's going to call my name.

00:34:51.150 --> 00:34:55.110

<v Doc>And I was dumb enough to think she meant actually me, not like the random Sean.

00:34:55.670 --> 00:34:59.270

<v Doc>You know what I mean? I'm just sitting there like, Miss Nancy,

00:34:59.270 --> 00:35:00.810

<v Doc>say my name, Miss Nancy, say my name.

00:35:00.930 --> 00:35:04.970

<v Doc>And then like once every two weeks when she was saying, Mom, Mom, she saw me.

00:35:05.390 --> 00:35:09.170

<v Doc>Like it's funny, but you know, it really did, it does work.

00:35:10.242 --> 00:35:15.942

<v Katie>Yeah, it's absolutely awesome. So I have some good, I think I have some good ideas.

00:35:16.302 --> 00:35:22.902

<v Katie>And I'm going to say, and this is a little bit of perfectionism kicking in,

00:35:23.022 --> 00:35:27.702

<v Katie>but here is, if you are like me and you have perfectionism that's popping up

00:35:27.702 --> 00:35:29.102

<v Katie>that you're whack-a-mole-ing down,

00:35:29.682 --> 00:35:36.822

<v Katie>one thing that chat GPT actually suggested, which I am going to take to some level.

00:35:36.822 --> 00:35:42.462

<v Katie>So one of the points that, as ChatGPT was helping me with an outline for this

00:35:42.462 --> 00:35:46.762

<v Katie>episode, it suggested to batch record your intros and outros,

00:35:47.042 --> 00:35:48.062

<v Katie>which I am not going to do.

00:35:48.482 --> 00:35:49.222

<v Doc>I can't do it.

00:35:49.462 --> 00:35:53.842

<v Katie>But some of you might actually find that content helpful if you're recording

00:35:53.842 --> 00:35:57.042

<v Katie>episodes and not live streaming them, absolutely batch them.

00:35:57.042 --> 00:36:02.522

<v Katie>What I will take from that point though, because I still, what ends up happening is in the moment,

00:36:02.782 --> 00:36:08.342

<v Katie>my brain overthinks and panics and then shuts down so that I end up kind of

00:36:08.342 --> 00:36:12.282

<v Katie>choking over my words, particularly at the outro, and then I'm not happy with how it is at the end.

00:36:12.422 --> 00:36:16.582

<v Katie>And then it's kind of this spiral that I'm in. So to get out of that spiral,

00:36:16.902 --> 00:36:22.602

<v Katie>rather than batch record, I think what I'm actually going to do is record a

00:36:22.602 --> 00:36:26.662

<v Katie>bunch of the same outro for the next couple of weeks,

00:36:26.862 --> 00:36:30.802

<v Katie>like maybe before I do the episode, not use the recordings, but use that as

00:36:30.802 --> 00:36:32.242

<v Katie>an opportunity to practice.

00:36:32.562 --> 00:36:35.502

<v Katie>So if I get into the habit of like, okay, what is it that I actually want to

00:36:35.502 --> 00:36:42.922

<v Katie>say in the outro when I'm not flustered and whatever, record it so that you memorize it, right?

00:36:43.002 --> 00:36:45.862

<v Katie>Like your brain starts understanding what it is you want to say.

00:36:46.082 --> 00:36:48.742

<v Katie>You're in the same space that you're in. You're in the same kind of.

00:36:49.142 --> 00:36:51.882

<v Katie>You know, ecamp scenes are all around you.

00:36:51.962 --> 00:36:55.862

<v Katie>Like it looks and feels the same to use that as my kind of practice so that

00:36:55.862 --> 00:37:00.062

<v Katie>I'll, so that when I do get into those moments, muscle memory will kick in and

00:37:00.062 --> 00:37:01.542

<v Katie>I'll just be able to say what I have to say.

00:37:01.622 --> 00:37:05.842

<v Katie>So I will say that even though I'm not going to batch record the idea of practicing

00:37:05.842 --> 00:37:09.762

<v Katie>some of those things, once you have an idea of what you actually really want

00:37:09.762 --> 00:37:13.262

<v Katie>best case scenario to be, at least for me, I think is going to make a big difference.

00:37:13.262 --> 00:37:15.542

<v Katie>So I know what I want it to be.

00:37:15.682 --> 00:37:20.082

<v Katie>I just never pull it off. So if I could actually plan and get into that kind

00:37:20.082 --> 00:37:25.522

<v Katie>of muscle memory of just knowing how it's going to be, I think it'll be significantly easier.

00:37:25.642 --> 00:37:30.762

<v Doc>I think I kind of like that idea. Okay, because here's a simple question for you.

00:37:31.282 --> 00:37:37.122

<v Doc>What is it about doing the show, recording, or live?

00:37:37.642 --> 00:37:40.862

<v Doc>What is it that triggers the flustering?

00:37:41.582 --> 00:37:44.422

<v Doc>Is that the right word? Flustering. which triggers the flust

00:37:45.333 --> 00:37:49.413

<v Katie>I think what triggers the flust is, so for that particular show,

00:37:49.553 --> 00:37:50.473

<v Katie>it's a few different things.

00:37:50.733 --> 00:37:54.813

<v Katie>One, it's that I'm trying to be really respectful of my time and of Nat's time.

00:37:55.133 --> 00:37:58.933

<v Katie>And we do it late at night. So for me, it goes from nine to 10.

00:37:59.193 --> 00:38:03.353

<v Katie>And so I'm like, by 10 o'clock at night, I'm tired. I know Nat's tired.

00:38:03.673 --> 00:38:07.573

<v Katie>Like, we just need to wrap, right? So part of me is like, I'm having fun,

00:38:07.773 --> 00:38:10.933

<v Katie>but I also want to be sensitive to time and I want to close.

00:38:11.713 --> 00:38:16.733

<v Katie>The other thing is I am trying to like grow the show, but I do want it to be

00:38:16.733 --> 00:38:18.253

<v Katie>a fun experience for everyone.

00:38:18.433 --> 00:38:21.993

<v Katie>So I feel like because I haven't prepped it and I haven't done a good job planning

00:38:21.993 --> 00:38:26.753

<v Katie>it out, I'm like, okay, okay, Katie, in my mind, I'm like, we're at the end of the show.

00:38:27.333 --> 00:38:30.473

<v Katie>Let them know about the website. Oh, but let them know about next week's episode.

00:38:30.653 --> 00:38:35.393

<v Katie>Oh, but also let them know about. And so my mind is kind of just thinking too much.

00:38:35.773 --> 00:38:39.253

<v Katie>And then like, and then Nat will say something different because we haven't planned it.

00:38:39.493 --> 00:38:43.693

<v Katie>It's funny, Brandon said this incredible thing when you and I were on a call

00:38:43.693 --> 00:38:48.153

<v Katie>with him earlier this week, or I guess late last week, whatever it was.

00:38:48.353 --> 00:38:55.313

<v Katie>But he was saying that basically a lot of perfectionism lies in not actually

00:38:55.313 --> 00:38:57.893

<v Katie>having a good plan, like not doing the pre-production,

00:38:58.393 --> 00:39:03.653

<v Katie>work that you need to do so that then you end up flustered because you're winging it, right?

00:39:03.653 --> 00:39:09.313

<v Katie>So I think a lot of my flussed lies in, I know generally what I want to do,

00:39:09.453 --> 00:39:11.933

<v Katie>but I didn't formulate an exact plan.

00:39:12.093 --> 00:39:15.333

<v Katie>And so my brain is on overdrive while the show is going.

00:39:15.553 --> 00:39:19.373

<v Katie>So people are like responding and Nat's talking and my brain is like,

00:39:19.673 --> 00:39:22.373

<v Katie>what episode are we doing next week? Should you talk about that?

00:39:22.553 --> 00:39:25.153

<v Katie>Do you want people back to the website? Are you trying to grow the email list?

00:39:25.253 --> 00:39:27.153

<v Katie>Like, what's the best, most fun thing?

00:39:27.333 --> 00:39:30.433

<v Katie>And then I end up just being like, blah, we'll see you next week.

00:39:30.893 --> 00:39:33.773

<v Katie>Shut it down. and it doesn't come out the way I wanted to.

00:39:33.773 --> 00:39:36.113

<v Doc>Here's a cool plan of action for you for this.

00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.700

<v Doc>I want you to make a scene. Not like make a scene.

00:39:41.260 --> 00:39:45.300

<v Doc>Throw a scene. I want you to make a scene. And on that scene,

00:39:45.540 --> 00:39:49.480

<v Doc>all I want you to have is a two-up of you and Nat coming up next week.

00:39:50.140 --> 00:39:55.060

<v Doc>So when you're ready to wrap the show, the visual trigger of coming up next

00:39:55.060 --> 00:39:56.780

<v Doc>week, and it has nothing else.

00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:00.240

<v Doc>It's literally your face, Nat's face, and the terminology coming up next week.

00:40:00.340 --> 00:40:04.180

<v Doc>Be really cool if you could get it made in a bijou.

00:40:04.700 --> 00:40:05.020

<v Katie>Yeah.

00:40:05.580 --> 00:40:07.520

<v Doc>Oh, that'd be fun. I don't know the name.

00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:09.620

<v Katie>Like a movie bijou. I don't know. I think that's what it's called.

00:40:09.640 --> 00:40:12.860

<v Doc>I just call it a bijou. Like a marquee? Yeah. A marquee. That's the word.

00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:17.160

<v Doc>Yeah. A marquee. Brother marquee's the brother. Anyway, that's two live crew.

00:40:18.120 --> 00:40:23.940

<v Doc>But make a marquee coming up next week. And then that puts your brain into a

00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:28.840

<v Doc>pattern trigger of next week we're going to do this particular show.

00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:32.460

<v Doc>And actually, we're going to throw a curveball or we don't even know yet.

00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:35.320

<v Doc>We're still planning. it doesn't matter what you say but that

00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:42.180

<v Doc>puts you in a 15 to 20 second breakdown of coming up next week and then you

00:40:42.180 --> 00:40:46.640

<v Doc>can say we do have a running list you can leave it over there or please go to

00:40:46.640 --> 00:40:51.300

<v Doc>the website all it's going to do that individual scene of itself will trigger

00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:55.260

<v Doc>you so when we have to wrap up and i got to do the um

00:40:56.316 --> 00:41:03.896

<v Doc>The ad reads or whatever. All Luis has to do is bring up the flow.ecam.com screen.

00:41:03.896 --> 00:41:06.136

<v Doc>I know what to do. My brain just goes into pattern.

00:41:06.256 --> 00:41:06.376

<v Katie>Yeah.

00:41:07.096 --> 00:41:11.916

<v Doc>Because that's a pattern. And so what you do in your practice game is you build

00:41:11.916 --> 00:41:13.136

<v Doc>your coming up next week scene.

00:41:13.276 --> 00:41:18.576

<v Doc>And then you just practice, turn the scene on and then go into your physical countdown.

00:41:18.876 --> 00:41:19.216

<v Katie>Right.

00:41:19.596 --> 00:41:24.316

<v Doc>It's kind of like in school or it's even better at work because you know where you are.

00:41:24.316 --> 00:41:29.716

<v Doc>When you hear the bell you know exactly what to do right did they do one at

00:41:29.716 --> 00:41:33.636

<v Doc>amsbury recently like yeah you got to do the fire thing and you walk downstairs

00:41:33.636 --> 00:41:38.176

<v Doc>you got to go across the street yeah right right so you know that already you

00:41:38.176 --> 00:41:41.116

<v Doc>know exactly what to do right if there was a uh

00:41:41.736 --> 00:41:44.476

<v Doc>if there was a a siren or something from the war

00:41:44.476 --> 00:41:47.756

<v Doc>like we used to practice these things so just just have that ready

00:41:47.756 --> 00:41:50.636

<v Doc>you're good to go and then that way you don't have to think about

00:41:50.636 --> 00:41:53.736

<v Doc>what to say you know exactly what to do because we also

00:41:53.736 --> 00:41:56.456

<v Doc>know it's very possible that in the middle of a

00:41:56.456 --> 00:41:59.656

<v Doc>show something could come up and then either

00:41:59.656 --> 00:42:03.436

<v Doc>you or nat will have to go you know what i mean kieran falls

00:42:03.436 --> 00:42:06.736

<v Doc>down the steps or yeah scarlet's standing

00:42:06.736 --> 00:42:10.736

<v Doc>there with the smile on her face like i don't know what happened mom yeah

00:42:10.736 --> 00:42:13.676

<v Doc>i i just heard this crazy noise we gotta go but

00:42:13.676 --> 00:42:17.336

<v Doc>coming up next week and then your brain will shut the show down yeah that's

00:42:17.336 --> 00:42:20.316

<v Doc>i think i think that alone would just make your job

00:42:20.316 --> 00:42:26.616

<v Doc>so much easier and then you could even have on your desktop like a little picture

00:42:26.616 --> 00:42:31.516

<v Doc>or a thing that basically breaks it down what you're going to say yeah so you

00:42:31.516 --> 00:42:35.936

<v Doc>know to go down that checklist but yeah i think that that one little visual

00:42:35.936 --> 00:42:37.396

<v Doc>trigger will set you straight

00:42:38.033 --> 00:42:40.913

<v Katie>Yeah. And hilariously, you win.

00:42:41.213 --> 00:42:44.533

<v Katie>We should have a you win, Doc was right sound effect for the show.

00:42:44.693 --> 00:42:49.173

<v Katie>But in the outline, it says, remember that visual elements make a big difference

00:42:49.173 --> 00:42:54.033

<v Katie>incorporating dynamic overlays, animations, or lower thirds to make your intro

00:42:54.033 --> 00:42:55.513

<v Katie>or outro visually appealing.

00:42:55.753 --> 00:43:00.093

<v Katie>So that's a really smart one, having that. And all of you stream deck people

00:43:00.093 --> 00:43:04.253

<v Katie>out there who love, you know, having a stream deck button, having like a stream

00:43:04.253 --> 00:43:09.273

<v Katie>deck button for intro and outro graphics to be visual reminders would be awesome.

00:43:09.673 --> 00:43:14.853

<v Doc>Dude, the minute that the show is over and I hear the on-air 4Gin,

00:43:14.933 --> 00:43:18.553

<v Doc>I just, I like, I know it's coming.

00:43:18.713 --> 00:43:22.613

<v Doc>And I like wait for that because the DJ in me thinks it's funny that 4Gin has

00:43:22.613 --> 00:43:25.393

<v Doc>made that because like I know exactly where it comes from.

00:43:25.393 --> 00:43:30.473

<v Doc>But like i literally wait for the yeah and it's like you know just like we wait

00:43:30.473 --> 00:43:35.573

<v Doc>for the bong bong same thing like yeah it legit is the same thing and that sort

00:43:35.573 --> 00:43:39.313

<v Doc>of uh winds people up all right well speaking of outro yeah

00:43:39.313 --> 00:43:43.033

<v Katie>I think we're there should we we should scroll through quickly here i'm just

00:43:43.033 --> 00:43:46.353

<v Katie>going to scroll to make sure we haven't missed any questions i think you were

00:43:46.353 --> 00:43:48.113

<v Katie>generally answering them as we're going through but.

00:43:48.113 --> 00:43:53.533

<v Doc>Jeremy said that uh honor and fortune's music rattles the whole studio.

00:43:54.493 --> 00:43:56.013

<v Katie>Jeremy's got it cranked. I love it.

00:43:56.113 --> 00:44:00.373

<v Doc>I live for that noise because I don't know, it's just something that fires me up.

00:44:01.373 --> 00:44:05.893

<v Doc>I also like the way that they end by putting in so many comments.

00:44:06.193 --> 00:44:09.253

<v Doc>I think it's good because that's a feature in Ecamm that a lot of people don't

00:44:09.253 --> 00:44:11.973

<v Doc>realize you can do. I love the fact that they do that.

00:44:12.333 --> 00:44:15.593

<v Doc>Ken and Glenn also do the same thing. They just put in this barrage of comments

00:44:15.593 --> 00:44:17.893

<v Doc>from everybody. I think it's a good way to wrap up the show.

00:44:18.733 --> 00:44:23.153

<v Katie>It is. I am seeing a couple of people that are saying, so Tora says that she

00:44:23.153 --> 00:44:24.153

<v Katie>loves Gretchen's outro.

00:44:24.453 --> 00:44:28.573

<v Katie>So a bunch of you actually have really awesome intros and outros and are probably

00:44:28.573 --> 00:44:30.253

<v Katie>far better at it than I am.

00:44:30.413 --> 00:44:35.673

<v Katie>So please, like, here's my one call to action from this show as we wrap it up.

00:44:35.773 --> 00:44:39.893

<v Katie>I would love to see those and I'm sure it would be really helpful for everyone

00:44:39.893 --> 00:44:42.113

<v Katie>else within the Ecamm community to see some of these as well.

00:44:42.253 --> 00:44:50.753

<v Katie>So this is my permission for you all to drop a short clip of video into the

00:44:50.753 --> 00:44:53.073

<v Katie>community, whether that's on Facebook or in Discord,

00:44:53.393 --> 00:44:58.233

<v Katie>do us all and Paul a favor and put, you know, this is an example of my show

00:44:58.233 --> 00:45:01.973

<v Katie>intro or my show outro so that everyone can see what it looks like.

00:45:02.073 --> 00:45:04.753

<v Katie>You can put that I gave you permission to do it. But I think it would be great

00:45:04.753 --> 00:45:08.713

<v Katie>for us all to kind of see what everyone else is doing and what people like and

00:45:08.713 --> 00:45:10.433

<v Katie>don't like to just to generate some ideas.

00:45:10.613 --> 00:45:16.213

<v Katie>So yeah, I'll have to take a look at them. But definitely feel free to go ahead and share those in.

00:45:16.353 --> 00:45:18.693

<v Katie>Just make sure you put in the description so we know what it is and that you're

00:45:18.693 --> 00:45:22.813

<v Katie>not just randomly posting who knows what into the community and we don't want

00:45:22.813 --> 00:45:24.053

<v Katie>to click through links that we don't know.

00:45:24.193 --> 00:45:28.193

<v Doc>And you know what's funny? I mentioned this to somebody recently.

00:45:29.157 --> 00:45:32.417

<v Doc>So Diary of a CEO, Stephen Barlett, he does something that's really cool.

00:45:32.577 --> 00:45:35.637

<v Doc>He has the current guest ask a question for the next guest.

00:45:36.357 --> 00:45:39.217

<v Doc>And they have no idea what the question is going to be. They don't even know

00:45:39.217 --> 00:45:40.357

<v Doc>who the other guest is going to be.

00:45:40.597 --> 00:45:43.737

<v Doc>It's just, they just ask a random, it's one of these like sort of provocative,

00:45:43.997 --> 00:45:46.597

<v Doc>life-oriented questions. I just think that stuff is brilliant.

00:45:46.817 --> 00:45:49.857

<v Doc>It works so well. It really does work so well.

00:45:50.397 --> 00:45:54.457

<v Katie>Well, there you go. Luis is helping me. So yeah, hashtag flow challenge.

00:45:54.557 --> 00:45:57.297

<v Katie>That will be your, that's your authorization code.

00:45:57.937 --> 00:46:00.997

<v Katie>Please feel free to drop that into the community again if

00:46:00.997 --> 00:46:04.677

<v Katie>you want the community link it is ecam2ms.com slash

00:46:04.677 --> 00:46:07.517

<v Katie>community that will give you the link to both our discord and to our facebook

00:46:07.517 --> 00:46:11.517

<v Katie>group feel free to share those intros and outros or if you haven't made one

00:46:11.517 --> 00:46:15.977

<v Katie>yet share like what you want to put in your intro or outro just so that we can

00:46:15.977 --> 00:46:19.677

<v Katie>all support each other and see what everyone is up to love to see how everyone's

00:46:19.677 --> 00:46:21.557

<v Katie>creating their creating their shows.

00:46:21.557 --> 00:46:24.777

<v Doc>For visual triggers people these are things that are easily done

00:46:24.777 --> 00:46:28.557

<v Doc>in canva or adobe express um i

00:46:28.557 --> 00:46:31.397

<v Doc>made mine in final cut i have a video on my channel about it but

00:46:31.397 --> 00:46:34.177

<v Doc>if you ask me i'll show y'all i'll maybe i'll do another one

00:46:34.177 --> 00:46:38.177

<v Doc>live like i might re-update mine but the last time i tried to change it sammy

00:46:38.177 --> 00:46:43.217

<v Doc>had a cow just like you said it's like you can't change that like that's the

00:46:43.217 --> 00:46:46.357

<v Doc>thing and i'm like but i just wanted to he's like no put it back i was like

00:46:46.357 --> 00:46:51.377

<v Doc>yes sammy i got yelled at by at that time a 17 year old kid yeah and i was like

00:46:51.377 --> 00:46:53.057

<v Doc>your community I'll put it back.

00:46:53.737 --> 00:46:57.677

<v Doc>So you got to be careful. All right, gang, you know what it is.

00:46:57.877 --> 00:47:02.277

<v Doc>If you have anything you want to say to us or you just want to figure out how

00:47:02.277 --> 00:47:06.637

<v Doc>to see the show, make sure you go and check out flow.ecam.com.

00:47:06.777 --> 00:47:10.337

<v Doc>That's F-L-O-W dot E-C-A-M-M dot com.

00:47:10.517 --> 00:47:15.417

<v Doc>And that will allow you to leave us a message, leave us a review and subscribe

00:47:15.417 --> 00:47:18.737

<v Doc>to the podcast wherever your podcast getting is got.

00:47:19.817 --> 00:47:23.357

<v Doc>And what's the next one? I forgot. Luis Chase's graphic.

00:47:24.617 --> 00:47:28.977

<v Doc>Visual cues. There we go. Why my brain is broke? I have no idea.

00:47:29.457 --> 00:47:33.017

<v Doc>We got to give a shout out to Captivate. That's Captivate.fm.

00:47:33.197 --> 00:47:35.677

<v Doc>That is exactly where we host the show.

00:47:35.877 --> 00:47:40.837

<v Doc>It is one of my favorite platforms for the simple reason that they have a growth mindset.

00:47:41.117 --> 00:47:47.317

<v Doc>So if you're looking for a place to host your podcast, go and check out Captivate.fm.

00:47:47.597 --> 00:47:49.997

<v Doc>I have no idea why that just didn't work.

00:47:51.537 --> 00:47:54.157

<v Katie>You're just trying to make me feel better stop trying to make me.

00:47:54.157 --> 00:48:00.117

<v Doc>Feel better doc I have said that no less than 98 plus times and today my brain

00:48:00.117 --> 00:48:07.217

<v Doc>just went freeze music please I blame Anna it's her fault she's here and now I'm giggling

00:48:10.377 --> 00:48:16.277

<v Doc>alright guys you know what it is flow writers out bye everyone

00:48:17.200 --> 00:48:39.433

<v Music>